making requests of leaders?

[Michael M Pannwitz]

I knew you would have a story to make the point, short and sweet!
hugs
mmp

Harrison Owen wrote:
> Right on Chris and Michael. When I am asked the question by a "quote" Leader
> my typical response may be a little stark, but it seems to work. When they
> ask should they participate, and if so how much -- I say, "As much as you
> like -- I would presume that you might add some value." And they do
> (participate and add value), at least that has been the experience thus far.
> But never to the point of overwhelming. Indeed I find the usual situation to
> be quite the opposite. The really good stuff always seems to come from
> somebody nobody ever heard of before. As for The Leader. . . My favorite
> story was of The Chief of the US Forest Service who posted a session, and
> nobody came. He looked rather like a 13 year old boy when nobody came to his
> birthday party -- but he quickly took it in stride. He said, "I guess this
> is not about me." -- and hurried off to a session he really cared about.
> 
> Harrison 
> 
> Harrison Owen
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
> Potomac, MD 20854
> USA
> Phone 301-365-2093
> www.openspaceworld.com
> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris
> Corrigan
> Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 2:52 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: making requests of leaders?
> 
> Echoing Michael here...I hear these concerns often, mostly from the sense of
> wanting the event to go well.  My invitation to people is always to just let
> their good judgement guide them in the moment, as that is what everyone else
> will be doing.  
> 
> IN other situations, I have had sponsors say that they wanted people to
> attend just to observe because participation would be problematic.  This is
> often the case with governments who are using OST for stakeholder
> consultations.  In those cases I always say that there are no "observers" in
> open space and everyone is welcome to attend sessions and post whatever they
> want.  If sponsors don't want people to participate I say that they should
> not invite them.  
> 
> In that case people are always free to show up and participate or not, but
> there are no different conditions for one set of participants than for
> another.  
> 
> I can't think of any exceptions I've ever had to this basic principle.  
> 
> Chris
> ----
> Chris Corrigan
> chris at chriscorrigan.com
> http://www.chriscorrigan.com
> 
> 
> On 2010-11-29, at 9:19 AM, Michael M Pannwitz wrote:
> 
>> Dear Raffi,
>> I put my money on the force of selforganisation.
>>
>> In fact, in the many contacts I had with sponsors (often "leaders",
> "managers") they often asked me
>> --should I wait a bit so others have a chance to voice their topics
>> --should I perhaps not go to the sessions so people can talk freely
>> --should I have some issues up my sleeves in case nobody offers issues
>> --etc.
>> which was often followed by a small talk about the "assumptions" or
> "images" we tend to act on and not on the stuff we are passionate about.
>> I think open space is real life and real conflict and lots of tough stuff
> and shit happens... and it always gets sorted out and my assumption is that
> the sorting out happens more readily if I as facilitator step back and give
> up on control.
>> Have a great day in San Diego, lucky cat
>> mmp
>>
>> Raffi Aftandelian wrote:
>>> Queridos amigos,
>>> Christine, your question about the challenging OST event you are working
> on
>>> encouraged me to post this question today. I've been meaning to put this
> out
>>> for weeks. I'm wondering how much it is a practice for all you to talk to
> or
>>> communicate with leaders and managers who will be attending an OST event
> and
>>> encourage them to *hold back* a little in order to equalize the power
>>> dynamics a little in the OST event.
>>> Specifically by *hold back* I mean:
>>> - asking them to wait a little before posting topics
>>> - for them not to feel like they need to post certain topics
>>> - not to try to steer the conversation, or try to resolve conflicts
>>> and ask them instead to participate as just one more person in the group.
>>> This question was inspired by coming across the document "Ground rules
> for
>>> Managers" in Lisa Heft's Open Space Idea Book. In that document, Lisa you
> go
>>> through a number of things that you communicate to leaders and managers
>>> ahead of an OST event, which include the requests above.
>>> When I came across this document in the book a few years back, I was
>>> surprised as I hadn't really heard of such a practice before. And finally
> for the first time I used it recently. I run a bimonthly
>>> Nonviolent Communication community practice event in OST (with one small-
> or
>>> perhaps for some, not so small- change-- we start with a short centering
>>> meditation)
>>> And it's hard to gauge right now if making those requests have helped in
> any
>>> way. The one person who I spoke to the longest about it seemed to ignore
> the
>>> requests in the document (I adapted the document for my situation; and
> the
>>> document explains that this is really something meant to be communicated
>>> orally. Most people I told them briefly about this over the phone or in
>>> person and then sent a full document over email). I'm really excited
> about making those requests in future OST events where it
>>> seems appropriate.
>>> And Lisa especially, I'm wondering that since you self-published the OS
> Idea
>>> Book, if your thinking around making those requests has changed.
>>> Thanks all!
>>> abrazos,
>>> Raffi
>>> *
>>> *
>>> ==========================================================
>>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>>> ------------------------------
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
>>> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>>> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
>>> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>> -- 
>> Michael M Pannwitz, boscop eg
>> Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany
>> ++49-30-772 8000
>> mmpanne at boscop.org
>> www.boscop.org
>>
>>
>> Check out the Open Space World Map presently showing 412 resident Open
> Space Workers in 71 countries working in a total of 141 countries worldwide
>> Have a look:
>> www.openspaceworldmap.org
>>
>> *
>> *
>> ==========================================================
>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>> ------------------------------
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
>> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>>
>> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
>> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> 
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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> 
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> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> 
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
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> ------------------------------
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> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> 

-- 
Michael M Pannwitz, boscop eg
Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany
++49-30-772 8000
mmpanne at boscop.org
www.boscop.org


Check out the Open Space World Map presently showing 412 resident Open 
Space Workers in 71 countries working in a total of 141 countries worldwide
Have a look:
www.openspaceworldmap.org

*
*
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>From  Mon Nov 29 21:17:40 2010
Message-Id: <MON.29.NOV.2010.211740.0000.>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:17:40 +0000
Reply-To: jackmartinleith at gmail.com
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: Jack Martin Leith <jackmartinleith at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: making requests of leaders?
In-Reply-To: <74046667-17B2-4409-BC3C-8B54497F9928 at chriscorrigan.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364eed32262d4a0496379a63

--0016364eed32262d4a0496379a63
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I'm 100 per cent with Chris Corrigan on this one.

Regarding senior management's full participation in Open Space, it's one of
those situations when you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. In
such situations my default is "do it", because you're damned anyway (in a
double-bind, if you like) so you might as well "do".

Warm wishes to all from a Siberian Bristol,

Jack

Jack Martin Leith
Creative Activist
Bristol, United Kingdom
Mobile: 07831 840541 (+44 7831 840541)
jack at jackmartinleith.com
Skype: jackmartinleith
Twitter: @jackmartinleith
www.jackmartinleith.com | www.creative-action.com
Join INCA - The International Network of Creative
Activists<http://creative-action.ning.com/>



On 29 November 2010 19:51, Chris Corrigan <chris at chriscorrigan.com> wrote:

> Echoing Michael here...I hear these concerns often, mostly from the sense
> of wanting the event to go well.  My invitation to people is always to just
> let their good judgement guide them in the moment, as that is what everyone
> else will be doing.
>
> IN other situations, I have had sponsors say that they wanted people to
> attend just to observe because participation would be problematic.  This is
> often the case with governments who are using OST for stakeholder
> consultations.  In those cases I always say that there are no "observers" in
> open space and everyone is welcome to attend sessions and post whatever they
> want.  If sponsors don't want people to participate I say that they should
> not invite them.
>
> In that case people are always free to show up and participate or not, but
> there are no different conditions for one set of participants than for
> another.
>
> I can't think of any exceptions I've ever had to this basic principle.
>
> Chris
> ----
> Chris Corrigan
> chris at chriscorrigan.com
> http://www.chriscorrigan.com
>
>
> On 2010-11-29, at 9:19 AM, Michael M Pannwitz wrote:
>
> > Dear Raffi,
> > I put my money on the force of selforganisation.
> >
> > In fact, in the many contacts I had with sponsors (often "leaders",
> "managers") they often asked me
> > --should I wait a bit so others have a chance to voice their topics
> > --should I perhaps not go to the sessions so people can talk freely
> > --should I have some issues up my sleeves in case nobody offers issues
> > --etc.
> > which was often followed by a small talk about the "assumptions" or
> "images" we tend to act on and not on the stuff we are passionate about.
> >
> > I think open space is real life and real conflict and lots of tough stuff
> and shit happens... and it always gets sorted out and my assumption is that
> the sorting out happens more readily if I as facilitator step back and give
> up on control.
> >
> > Have a great day in San Diego, lucky cat
> > mmp
> >
> > Raffi Aftandelian wrote:
> >> Queridos amigos,
> >> Christine, your question about the challenging OST event you are working
> on
> >> encouraged me to post this question today. I've been meaning to put this
> out
> >> for weeks. I'm wondering how much it is a practice for all you to talk
> to or
> >> communicate with leaders and managers who will be attending an OST event
> and
> >> encourage them to *hold back* a little in order to equalize the power
> >> dynamics a little in the OST event.
> >> Specifically by *hold back* I mean:
> >> - asking them to wait a little before posting topics
> >> - for them not to feel like they need to post certain topics
> >> - not to try to steer the conversation, or try to resolve conflicts
> >> and ask them instead to participate as just one more person in the
> group.
> >> This question was inspired by coming across the document "Ground rules
> for
> >> Managers" in Lisa Heft's Open Space Idea Book. In that document, Lisa
> you go
> >> through a number of things that you communicate to leaders and managers
> >> ahead of an OST event, which include the requests above.
> >> When I came across this document in the book a few years back, I was
> >> surprised as I hadn't really heard of such a practice before. And
> finally for the first time I used it recently. I run a bimonthly
> >> Nonviolent Communication community practice event in OST (with one
> small- or
> >> perhaps for some, not so small- change-- we start with a short centering
> >> meditation)
> >> And it's hard to gauge right now if making those requests have helped in
> any
> >> way. The one person who I spoke to the longest about it seemed to ignore
> the
> >> requests in the document (I adapted the document for my situation; and
> the
> >> document explains that this is really something meant to be communicated
> >> orally. Most people I told them briefly about this over the phone or in
> >> person and then sent a full document over email). I'm really excited
> about making those requests in future OST events where it
> >> seems appropriate.
> >> And Lisa especially, I'm wondering that since you self-published the OS
> Idea
> >> Book, if your thinking around making those requests has changed.
> >> Thanks all!
> >> abrazos,
> >> Raffi
> >> *
> >> *
> >> ==========================================================
> >> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> >> ------------------------------
> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> >> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> >> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
> >> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> >> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> >
> > --
> > Michael M Pannwitz, boscop eg
> > Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany
> > ++49-30-772 8000
> > mmpanne at boscop.org
> > www.boscop.org
> >
> >
> > Check out the Open Space World Map presently showing 412 resident Open
> Space Workers in 71 countries working in a total of 141 countries worldwide
> > Have a look:
> > www.openspaceworldmap.org
> >
> > *
> > *
> > ==========================================================
> > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > ------------------------------
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> > view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
> >
> > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>

*
*
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------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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--0016364eed32262d4a0496379a63
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div>I'm 100 per cent with Chris Corrigan on this one.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Regarding senior management's full=A0participation in Open Space, =
it's one of those situations when you're damned if you do, and damn=
ed if you don't. In such situations my default is "do it", be=
cause you're damned anyway (in a double-bind, if you like) so you might=
 as well "do".</div>

<div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000"></font>=A0</div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000">Warm wishes to all from a Siberian Bristol,</f=
ont></div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Jack</div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000"></font>=A0</div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000">Jack Martin Leith</font></div>
<div>Creative Activist</div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000">Bristol, United Kingdom<br>Mobile: 07831 84054=
1 (+44 7831 840541)</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000"><a href=3D"mailto:jack at jackmartinleith.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">jack at jackmartinleith.com</a><br>Skype: jackmartinleith</fon=
t></div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000">Twitter: @jackmartinleith</font></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.jackmartinleith.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.jack=
martinleith.com</a> | <a href=3D"http://www.creative-action.com/" target=3D=
"_blank">www.creative-action.com</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://creative-action.ning.com/" target=3D"_blank">Join IN=
CA - The International Network of Creative Activists</a></div></div><br><br=
><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 29 November 2010 19:51, Chris Corrigan <span =
dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:chris at chriscorrigan.com">chris at chriscorri=
gan.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">Echoing Michael here...I hear th=
ese concerns often, mostly from the sense of wanting the event to go well. =
=A0My invitation to people is always to just let their good judgement guide=
 them in the moment, as that is what everyone else will be doing.<br>
<br>IN other situations, I have had sponsors say that they wanted people to=
 attend just to observe because participation would be problematic. =A0This=
 is often the case with governments who are using OST for stakeholder consu=
ltations. =A0In those cases I always say that there are no "observers&=
quot; in open space and everyone is welcome to attend sessions and post wha=
tever they want. =A0If sponsors don't want people to participate I say =
that they should not invite them.<br>
<br>In that case people are always free to show up and participate or not, =
but there are no different conditions for one set of participants than for =
another.<br><br>I can't think of any exceptions I've ever had to th=
is basic principle.<br>
<br>Chris<br>----<br><font color=3D"#888888">Chris Corrigan<br><a href=3D"m=
ailto:chris at chriscorrigan.com">chris at chriscorrigan.com</a><br><a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.chriscorrigan.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.chriscorrigan.com=
</a><br>
</font>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"h5"><br><br>On 2010-11-29, at 9:19 AM, Michael M Pannwitz wro=
te:<br><br>> Dear Raffi,<br>> I put my money on the force of selforga=
nisation.<br>><br>> In fact, in the many contacts I had with sponsors=
 (often "leaders", "managers") they often asked me<br>
> --should I wait a bit so others have a chance to voice their topics<br=
>> --should I perhaps not go to the sessions so people can talk freely<b=
r>> --should I have some issues up my sleeves in case nobody offers issu=
es<br>
> --etc.<br>> which was often followed by a small talk about the &quo=
t;assumptions" or "images" we tend to act on and not on the =
stuff we are passionate about.<br>><br>> I think open space is real l=
ife and real conflict and lots of tough stuff and shit happens... and it al=
ways gets sorted out and my assumption is that the sorting out happens more=
 readily if I as facilitator step back and give up on control.<br>
><br>> Have a great day in San Diego, lucky cat<br>> mmp<br>><b=
r>> Raffi Aftandelian wrote:<br>>> Queridos amigos,<br>>> Ch=
ristine, your question about the challenging OST event you are working on<b=
r>
>> encouraged me to post this question today. I've been meaning t=
o put this out<br>>> for weeks. I'm wondering how much it is a pr=
actice for all you to talk to or<br>>> communicate with leaders and m=
anagers who will be attending an OST event and<br>
>> encourage them to *hold back* a little in order to equalize the po=
wer<br>>> dynamics a little in the OST event.<br>>> Specificall=
y by *hold back* I mean:<br>>> - asking them to wait a little before =
posting topics<br>
>> - for them not to feel like they need to post certain topics<br>&g=
t;> - not to try to steer the conversation, or try to resolve conflicts<=
br>>> and ask them instead to participate as just one more person in =
the group.<br>
>> This question was inspired by coming across the document "Gro=
und rules for<br>>> Managers" in Lisa Heft's Open Space Idea=
 Book. In that document, Lisa you go<br>>> through a number of things=
 that you communicate to leaders and managers<br>
>> ahead of an OST event, which include the requests above.<br>>&g=
t; When I came across this document in the book a few years back, I was<br>=
>> surprised as I hadn't really heard of such a practice before. =
And finally for the first time I used it recently. I run a bimonthly<br>
>> Nonviolent Communication community practice event in OST (with one=
 small- or<br>>> perhaps for some, not so small- change-- we start wi=
th a short centering<br>>> meditation)<br>>> And it's hard =
to gauge right now if making those requests have helped in any<br>
>> way. The one person who I spoke to the longest about it seemed to =
ignore the<br>>> requests in the document (I adapted the document for=
 my situation; and the<br>>> document explains that this is really so=
mething meant to be communicated<br>
>> orally. Most people I told them briefly about this over the phone =
or in<br>>> person and then sent a full document over email). I'm=
 really excited about making those requests in future OST events where it<b=
r>
>> seems appropriate.<br>>> And Lisa especially, I'm wonder=
ing that since you self-published the OS Idea<br>>> Book, if your thi=
nking around making those requests has changed.<br>>> Thanks all!<br>
>> abrazos,<br>>> Raffi<br>>> *<br>>> *<br>>>=
 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>>> <a href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.B=
OISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a><br>
>> ------------------------------<br>>> To subscribe, unsubscri=
be, change your options,<br>>> view the archives of <a href=3D"mailto=
:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu">oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu</a>:<br>&gt=
;> <a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a><br>
>> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:<br>>> <a=
 href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a><br>><br>> --<br>> Michael M Pannwit=
z, boscop eg<br>
> Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany<br>> ++49-30-772 8000<br>> <a =
href=3D"mailto:mmpanne at boscop.org">mmpanne at boscop.org</a><br>> <a href=
=3D"http://www.boscop.org/" target=3D"_blank">www.boscop.org</a><br>><br=
>><br>
> Check out the Open Space World Map presently showing 412 resident Open=
 Space Workers in 71 countries working in a total of 141 countries worldwid=
e<br>> Have a look:<br>> <a href=3D"http://www.openspaceworldmap.org/=
" target=3D"_blank">www.openspaceworldmap.org</a><br>
><br>> *<br>> *<br>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>> <a href=
=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</=
a><br>> ------------------------------<br>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,<br>> view the archi=
ves of <a href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu">oslist at listserv.bo=
isestate.edu</a>:<br>> <a href=3D"http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archive=
s/oslist.html" target=3D"_blank">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/os=
list.html</a><br>
><br>> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:<br>> <a=
 href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
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