Where did 2 1/2 days come from?
Suzanne Daigle
sdaigle4 at gmail.com
Mon Apr 5 10:51:44 PDT 2010
Dear Harrison, friend to us all,
Such simple truths, so very very simple. I'm starting to understand
these simple truths and realize it's where and when the "bliss" of
life starts with all its beautiful joys and rich sorrows.
And the mystery of it all is that somehow this simple truth of letting
go to just be me seems to unfold inside me in a way I cannot fully
understand...perhaps when I was ready to see and feel? All I know is
that when I feel it and know what you described a little more each
day, this just "being" myself, I then want everyone else to know "it"
too because life is so much better that way. And the best way I know
to share this simple truth is to invite folks to open space in their
lives, hoping they too will discover this wonderful truth of life that
started billions of years ago. If only they could let go some of the
doing, the fretting, the worrying and open up a bit of space.
Knowing this a little more is what gives me the courage of my own
voice now in writing this to all of you, writing what I would have
thought sounded too corny, too religious and weird when I was my
corporate self with an identity to protect, but now when I am just me,
which still includes the corporate me, I can gush out and say a
heartfelt thank you for the purposeful work that you/we do in Open
Space, wherever we are in this big wide world.
Hopefully many will continue to jump into this river of on-line
conversations and add their voices so we can see more of each other
from the" inside out" instead of the "outside in" with our questions,
our hopes, our fears and our dreams. We'll probably see that we are
all the same after all, not perfect but good enough to enjoy the ride!
In the meantime Harrison, thank you for repeating and repeating the
same thing in so many ways.
Suzanne
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:
> Good wonderings, Doug. But I might suggest that you turn things around, or
> possibly upside down. Rather than internalizing The Law of Two Feet (and we
> might also add the 4 Principles), I suspect that it is more a matter of
> remembering what we already know and for one reason or another have chosen
> to repress. All of this goes with the idea that Open Space is truly not
> something new and radically different. In fact it is a forceful
> confrontation with a pre-existing condition. We are already in Open Space by
> virtue of the fact that we have forever been in a self organizing world (the
> usual 13.7 billion years stuff). The Law and the Principles are descriptive
> of normative behavior in a self organizing world, and therefore Open Space,
> I think. In short, we do all of the above all the time -- unfortunately we
> usually feel guilty about it, and because of this, we tend to do it/them
> badly, or at least awkwardly and grudgingly. Thus with the Law: when faced
> with a nonproductive situation (no learning, no contribution) we always
> leave (hearts and mind out the window) -- but the body remains feeling
> miserable, and making others miserable as well. Once we get the picture,
> things work better, and we feel a lot better. But it is not about doing
> something new, or internalizing some new truth -- but rather remembering
> what we already knew and doing what we should/could have been doing in the
> first place.
>
> Why bother with all this? Well if nothing else, I think it makes our job as
> consultants and facilitators a lot easier. First of all we are not inviting
> our clients to engage in risky behavior. Quite the opposite, we are opening
> a space in which they can really be themselves. And the real risk is to
> continue with the non-productive, guilt inducing, dependant behavior. The
> old Marxist Battle Cry might have some application here (with modification):
> People of the World Unite -- You have nothing to lose but your chains." In a
> word -- Be yourself!
>
> Harrison
>
>
> Harrison Owen
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
> Potomac, MD 20854
> USA
> Phone 301-365-2093
> www.openspaceworld.com
> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of doug
> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:35 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: Where did 2 1/2 days come from?
>
> Peggy--
>
> Thank you for restating what I had been trying to remember on what
> happens after 1 day, 2 and 2.5.
>
> It is interesting that people internalize the law after many days, that
> a rhythm develops. I wonder about the collective unconscious and the
> deeper things within the human species when we have longer observances,
> and how that is perhaps parallel to what you are noticing here.
>
> :- Doug.
>
> On Sun, 2010-04-04 at 15:32 -0700, Peggy Holman wrote:
>> I remember a simple framing from Harrison when first learning about OST.
> He said you can have a great conversation in one day. A second day provides
> time for a sense of direction to emerge. In 2.5 days, there's time to set
> priorities. That characterization fits my experience.
>>
>> I have either run or participated in a few OS's that were more than 2.5
> days. I find they are great for truly internalizing the law of 2 feet.
> When explicitly invited to spend days and days in Open Space, people become
> more facile at paying attention to their own internal rhythm.
>>
>> Peggy
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 3, 2010, at 1:27 AM, Michael M Pannwitz wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Doug,
>> > when I started facilitating os-events I was still employed by the
> Protestant Church of Berlin as an OD-consultant. Most of my work was with
> parishes and most of the participants were working folks who were able and
> ready to follow the invitation to an event that started
>> > -Friday afternoon (about 3pm and could go to 7pm)
>> > -Saturday all day but not before 10 am so people could still do their
> weekend shopping (the hours shops were open was much more regulated back
> then, 1996, then today)
>> > -Sunday, sometimes in the morning but often in the afternoon so that
> participants could attend worship services, get a lunch at the event at
> about 12:30 and stay until 16:30, enough to do a thorough Action Planning.
>> > So, thats how a 16 hour event spread over 3 days became fairly common in
> my first year (1996-1997) with 16 events in that year.
>> > There were shorter events (4 hours, 6 hours, 8 hours, a day and a half,
> etc.) but it was very impressive to see how "16 hours spread over three
> days, sleeping twice" differed from shorter designs, even from 16 hours
> (same amount of time) spread over 2 days, sleeping once.
>> > (By the way, "16 hours spread over three days, sleeping twice" has long
> been the "formula" with the Future Search crowd).
>> > Later, when I worked with os all over, and also facilitated two full
> days and a half I could not really find those additional hours in the
> morning of the first day adding much to the os...half a day, a whole day and
> half a day seemed to work just perfect...it was also the only design where I
> never heard anyone saying in the Closing Circle "we should have had more
> time" or similar statements. These time related statements are always to
> hear in shorter designs.
>> > I have never been in an event or facilitated one that went over more
> than 3 days BUT I have heard of such events and as I remember folks involved
> in them felt that the additional time had not been needed.
>> > This seems to be supported by remarks in Closing Circles where people
> occasionally have said that now they are ready to go home and move on and
> that the time was just right or that they didn't feel they could
> continue..."happily exhausted", someone once said.
>> > I have read about longer os events in a brochure issued by the Peace
> Corps that used os in their trainings quite a while back...would not be
> surprised if they still do.
>> > The WOSonOS this year in Berlin employs a full 2,5 day design...and as
> far as I know that has been its design regarding the length for many years.
> The use of Action Planning in the last half day is now also being employed
> every now and then but I think was not part of the early tradition...it will
> be part of the design in Berlin.
>> > I see you and another 10 folks from the USA are coming...great
> opportunity to have a breakout session on that topic. Having a total of
> presently 126 people from 25 countries attending will definitely provide
> plenty of diversity not to mention High Play, High Learning und no small
> amount of Productivity and Fun!
>> > Here is the link for those of you wanting to see the updated
> information:
>> >> http://www.boscop.org/events/508-wosonos-2010
>> >
>> > You are all invited to come!
>> > Greetings from springtime Berlin
>> > mmp
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > douglas germann schrieb:
>> >> Hi--
>> >> Where did the idea for 2 1/2 days come from? Why not 4 or 5 or 3?
>> >> :- Doug.
>> >> *
>> >> *
>> >> ==========================================================
>> >> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
>> >> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>> >> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>> >> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
>> >> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>> >
>> > --
>> > Michael M Pannwitz, boscop eg
>> > Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany
>> > ++49-30-772 8000
>> > mmpanne at boscop.org
>> > www.boscop.org
>> >
>> >
>> > Check out the Open Space World Map presently showing 389 resident Open
> Space Workers in 67 countries working in a total of 139 countries worldwide
>> > Have a look:
>> > www.openspaceworldmap.org
>> >
>> > *
>> > *
>> > ==========================================================
>> > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>> > ------------------------------
>> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
>> > view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>> >
>> > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
>> > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>> >
>>
>> *
>> *
>> ==========================================================
>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>> ------------------------------
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
>> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>>
>> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
>> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
--
Suzanne Daigle
NuFocus Strategic Group
7159 Victoria Circle
University Park, FL 34201
FL 941-359-8877;
CT 203-722-2009
www.nufocusgroup.com
s.daigle at nufocusgroup.com
*
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------------------------------
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>From Mon Apr 5 22:12:46 2010
Message-Id: <MON.5.APR.2010.221246.0400.>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 22:12:46 -0400
Reply-To: 76066.515 at compuserve.com
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Where did 2 1/2 days come from?
X-To: Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
In-Reply-To: <002301cad4da$9352da00$b9f88e00$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Harrison--
Hmmm....
"for one reason or another have chosen to repress."
"the real risk is to continue with the non-productive"
"You have nothing to lose but your chains."
Careful there, Harrison--sounds like the makings of a new book! <grin>
:- Doug.
PS: Thanks for making such an evocative reply, Harrison.
:- Doug.
On Mon, 2010-04-05 at 12:10 -0400, Harrison Owen wrote:
> Good wonderings, Doug. But I might suggest that you turn things around, or
> possibly upside down. Rather than internalizing The Law of Two Feet (and we
> might also add the 4 Principles), I suspect that it is more a matter of
> remembering what we already know and for one reason or another have chosen
> to repress. All of this goes with the idea that Open Space is truly not
> something new and radically different. In fact it is a forceful
> confrontation with a pre-existing condition. We are already in Open Space by
> virtue of the fact that we have forever been in a self organizing world (the
> usual 13.7 billion years stuff). The Law and the Principles are descriptive
> of normative behavior in a self organizing world, and therefore Open Space,
> I think. In short, we do all of the above all the time -- unfortunately we
> usually feel guilty about it, and because of this, we tend to do it/them
> badly, or at least awkwardly and grudgingly. Thus with the Law: when faced
> with a nonproductive situation (no learning, no contribution) we always
> leave (hearts and mind out the window) -- but the body remains feeling
> miserable, and making others miserable as well. Once we get the picture,
> things work better, and we feel a lot better. But it is not about doing
> something new, or internalizing some new truth -- but rather remembering
> what we already knew and doing what we should/could have been doing in the
> first place.
>
> Why bother with all this? Well if nothing else, I think it makes our job as
> consultants and facilitators a lot easier. First of all we are not inviting
> our clients to engage in risky behavior. Quite the opposite, we are opening
> a space in which they can really be themselves. And the real risk is to
> continue with the non-productive, guilt inducing, dependant behavior. The
> old Marxist Battle Cry might have some application here (with modification):
> People of the World Unite -- You have nothing to lose but your chains." In a
> word -- Be yourself!
>
> Harrison
>
>
> Harrison Owen
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
> Potomac, MD 20854
> USA
> Phone 301-365-2093
> www.openspaceworld.com
> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of doug
> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:35 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: Where did 2 1/2 days come from?
>
> Peggy--
>
> Thank you for restating what I had been trying to remember on what
> happens after 1 day, 2 and 2.5.
>
> It is interesting that people internalize the law after many days, that
> a rhythm develops. I wonder about the collective unconscious and the
> deeper things within the human species when we have longer observances,
> and how that is perhaps parallel to what you are noticing here.
>
> :- Doug.
>
> On Sun, 2010-04-04 at 15:32 -0700, Peggy Holman wrote:
> > I remember a simple framing from Harrison when first learning about OST.
> He said you can have a great conversation in one day. A second day provides
> time for a sense of direction to emerge. In 2.5 days, there's time to set
> priorities. That characterization fits my experience.
> >
> > I have either run or participated in a few OS's that were more than 2.5
> days. I find they are great for truly internalizing the law of 2 feet.
> When explicitly invited to spend days and days in Open Space, people become
> more facile at paying attention to their own internal rhythm.
> >
> > Peggy
> >
> >
> >
> > On Apr 3, 2010, at 1:27 AM, Michael M Pannwitz wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Doug,
> > > when I started facilitating os-events I was still employed by the
> Protestant Church of Berlin as an OD-consultant. Most of my work was with
> parishes and most of the participants were working folks who were able and
> ready to follow the invitation to an event that started
> > > -Friday afternoon (about 3pm and could go to 7pm)
> > > -Saturday all day but not before 10 am so people could still do their
> weekend shopping (the hours shops were open was much more regulated back
> then, 1996, then today)
> > > -Sunday, sometimes in the morning but often in the afternoon so that
> participants could attend worship services, get a lunch at the event at
> about 12:30 and stay until 16:30, enough to do a thorough Action Planning.
> > > So, thats how a 16 hour event spread over 3 days became fairly common in
> my first year (1996-1997) with 16 events in that year.
> > > There were shorter events (4 hours, 6 hours, 8 hours, a day and a half,
> etc.) but it was very impressive to see how "16 hours spread over three
> days, sleeping twice" differed from shorter designs, even from 16 hours
> (same amount of time) spread over 2 days, sleeping once.
> > > (By the way, "16 hours spread over three days, sleeping twice" has long
> been the "formula" with the Future Search crowd).
> > > Later, when I worked with os all over, and also facilitated two full
> days and a half I could not really find those additional hours in the
> morning of the first day adding much to the os...half a day, a whole day and
> half a day seemed to work just perfect...it was also the only design where I
> never heard anyone saying in the Closing Circle "we should have had more
> time" or similar statements. These time related statements are always to
> hear in shorter designs.
> > > I have never been in an event or facilitated one that went over more
> than 3 days BUT I have heard of such events and as I remember folks involved
> in them felt that the additional time had not been needed.
> > > This seems to be supported by remarks in Closing Circles where people
> occasionally have said that now they are ready to go home and move on and
> that the time was just right or that they didn't feel they could
> continue..."happily exhausted", someone once said.
> > > I have read about longer os events in a brochure issued by the Peace
> Corps that used os in their trainings quite a while back...would not be
> surprised if they still do.
> > > The WOSonOS this year in Berlin employs a full 2,5 day design...and as
> far as I know that has been its design regarding the length for many years.
> The use of Action Planning in the last half day is now also being employed
> every now and then but I think was not part of the early tradition...it will
> be part of the design in Berlin.
> > > I see you and another 10 folks from the USA are coming...great
> opportunity to have a breakout session on that topic. Having a total of
> presently 126 people from 25 countries attending will definitely provide
> plenty of diversity not to mention High Play, High Learning und no small
> amount of Productivity and Fun!
> > > Here is the link for those of you wanting to see the updated
> information:
> > >> http://www.boscop.org/events/508-wosonos-2010
> > >
> > > You are all invited to come!
> > > Greetings from springtime Berlin
> > > mmp
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > douglas germann schrieb:
> > >> Hi--
> > >> Where did the idea for 2 1/2 days come from? Why not 4 or 5 or 3?
> > >> :- Doug.
> > >> *
> > >> *
> > >> ==========================================================
> > >> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > >> ------------------------------
> > >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> > >> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> > >> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
> > >> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> > >> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> > >
> > > --
> > > Michael M Pannwitz, boscop eg
> > > Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany
> > > ++49-30-772 8000
> > > mmpanne at boscop.org
> > > www.boscop.org
> > >
> > >
> > > Check out the Open Space World Map presently showing 389 resident Open
> Space Workers in 67 countries working in a total of 139 countries worldwide
> > > Have a look:
> > > www.openspaceworldmap.org
> > >
> > > *
> > > *
> > > ==========================================================
> > > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > > ------------------------------
> > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> > > view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> > > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
> > >
> > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> > > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> > >
> >
> > *
> > *
> > ==========================================================
> > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > ------------------------------
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> > view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
> >
> > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
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