re honouring each other

[Phelim McDermott]

Harold

In response to your email I find myself thinking how different would  
our interactions be if we really knew and felt the size of the virtual  
room we were speaking to. Those who are silent would be so much more  
present in their silence. We would see people using their two feet as  
they left.. (i left and came back by the way!  Did you notice the  
strength of my emotional response? ) And we would feel the excitement  
in the space between us as things shifted.  Politeness would not  be  
something we remember or forget but a diffferent kind of edge we have  
to cross because the whole group would be holding that dynamic and  
differentiation in an aware way... Perhaps.

At the moment I have to work hard to remember and imagine all who are  
really here.

When will computers include the felt sense of our interactions and  
when will we grow awareness of those missing signals online?

Somewhere we can't imagine it yet but until we develop this capacity  
online communication is going to be incomplete and missing Spirit.

Here's to imagining and remembering what might be .. Being said in the  
silence!

An invitation to speak up perhaps.. I don't know

This is the only way I can find into this conversation!

Phelim

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 22, 2009, at 12:31 AM, Harold Shinsato <harold at shinsato.com>  
wrote:

> Tree,
>
> Thanks for your courage, posting into a circle that from where I sit  
> doesn't look like it is welcoming your input. I salute you. I'm  
> intrigued with your mentioning the work of Humberto Maturana, and  
> would enjoy hearing more (email me privately if you think it won't  
> be of interest to the rest of us).
>
> A couple points - I don't think Michael can be faulted for wanting  
> to maintain leadership and management of openspaceworld.org when it  
> seems to be doing rather well (#1 ranking), and especially if the  
> community is supporting him. The vote is in, as far as I can tell,  
> for the status quo.
>
> In terms of suppression, I'm not sure I'm hearing that - at least  
> not explicitly. It might (or might not) be implicit. But what I am  
> hearing, and I support, is a request to keep some civility and  
> decorum. Being polite isn't as fashionable as it used to be, but  
> good manners give a decided advantage in getting a point through  
> most of the time because it reduces the urge to kill the messenger  
> rather than face the unwanted communication. When a message is going  
> to be hard to hear, it takes away a lot of the sting if we use "I"  
> statements. This employs advances in psychological awareness about  
> communication. When we do that, we are explicit about offering a  
> reading from "what it looks like from here", rather than an attempt  
> to state (or define) what's objectively real. Not that that's wrong.  
> A spade is, yes, a spade. But if I see a spade, and you see a heart  
> - maybe it's good to compare notes in more detail about my "spade"  
> and your "heart" before we start fighting about the objective reality.
>
> A bunch of fallible brains giving differing and even contradictory  
> reports might feel irritating, but probably not threatening. When we  
> advance into the realm of "objective reality" too quickly, it's  
> going to feel like a trespass. It will feel like I'm wrong, you're  
> right. Maybe that conflict needs to happen - but only after we all  
> get a chance to see and integrate what all these amazing brains and  
> psyche's around us are seeing/feeling/thinking/observing.
>
> I really am in support of what I see Kaliya trying to do in moving  
> towards a community managed site, and I'm supporting her with my  
> time and input. But I don't much care for shouting with all caps,  
> calling people dictators, and saying someone's life work is lame.  
> Just my personal bias, I'm not saying it's wrong to do so. In fact,  
> I just told my manager a little while ago that she should tell me if  
> something I'm doing sucks. But we've established some trust. In a  
> huge forum like this one - how much do we really even know each  
> other (all 600+ of us)? How much do we even know how far these one's  
> and zero's are ringing out there to be construed - or misconstrued.  
> Anyway, that's just how it looks from where I'm sitting.
>
>     Harold
>
>
> Tree Fitzpatrick wrote:
>>
>> Michael, are you willing to relinquish your ownerhsip of openspaceworld.org 
>> ?  I think that would be best for the worldwide OS community.  A  
>> subdomain of your personal website is not, in my opinion, open.
>>
>> Thanks, Kaliya, for asking others to voice their possibly negative  
>> experiences with Michael Herman.  For myself, I am feeling  
>> resentful of the suppression taking place in this discussion.  I  
>> resent suggestions to use non-violent communication when it is  
>> used, as it seems to be here, to inhibit expression.
>>
>> Is anyone on this list familiar with the work of Humberto  
>> Maturana?  He posits that much of what is 'wrong' with human  
>> culture is we suppress what 'is' and pressure others to only  
>> disclose what fits the existing paradigms.  As long as folks post  
>> lovey-dovey calls for only 'positive' expression, negativity is not  
>> allowed into the light. There is no sunlight without shadow and,  
>> still speaking only for myself, it takes a lot of love -- in this  
>> instance my love for the practice of OS -- to speak my truth, even  
>> when it is negative.
>>
>> I read a lot of invitation in this list for OS but only 'openness'  
>> for the positive.
>>
>> I believe there is a shadow element here that some are pressuring  
>> the rest of us to suppress. We can go on suppressing. Yes indeed we  
>> can.  In OS, where I live, it is often very loving, positive,  
>> affirmative, appreciative and nonviolent to voice what I see in the  
>> dark.
>
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