re honouring each other
Denise Tennen
denisetennen at comcast.net
Thu Nov 19 20:54:42 PST 2009
Karen
Thanks for what you wrote, it reflects pretty accurately what I have
been feeling in response to the more attack-like and or disparaging
aspects of this interchange about creating appropriate cyber home(s)
for OST. (And I don't have any personal history with anyone on the
OSLIST).
Denise
On Nov 19, 2009, at 9:04 PM, Karen Sella wrote:
> Hi Kaliya,
>
> I agree that this conversation has been useful in helping you
> organize your efforts around more truth, and I’m delighted that you
> are taking responsibility for your passion in and for this
> community. I appreciate your desire to offer more alternatives and
> educate those of us with less technical prowess about the various
> options. However, when you make disparaging remarks about Michael
> (or anyone) and his website, I feel disrespected as a member of
> this community. When you characterize a member of our community as
> a “dominating” “dictator” who’s “blocking progress” and being
> dishonest—not “coming clean”—I distrust both your motives and your
> capacity for civil discourse. When you frame his website as a
> “dysfunctional default” that is somehow less than the “new and
> better real home” for this community that your efforts will
> provide, I feel sad that in your efforts to build something new,
> you neglect to express more appreciation for what is and what has
> been. These comments seem unnecessarily dismissive and partial,
> and undermine my desire to receive your potentially valuable
> contribution. However, being open-minded, I followed the link in
> your invitation, and upon arriving there was disappointed to find
> more negative commentary about Michael and his website amidst more
> productive suggestions about possible options.
>
> While various professions do indeed have different "normative
> conflict levels," and there are those in all professions who could
> be described as “conflict-averse,” I suspect that much discomfort
> here has less to do with normative conflict levels than differing
> norms about how to deal with conflict. As my messages to date must
> demonstrate, I am not conflict-averse, but I am averse to personal
> attacks. Blaming, name-calling and yelling make me uncomfortable.
> Unless one happens to be shouting for joy, shouting actually makes
> it more difficult for me to hear and listen. In my experience,
> these kinds of tactics, which we all are guilty of engaging in from
> time to time, close rather than open space.
>
> I understand from what you have shared that you are really
> attempting to open space and improve this community’s online
> experience. I can imagine how frustrating it must be to have a
> clear vision of what you want and feel unheard or thwarted in your
> attempts to garner the support to make it happen, and you are, of
> course, entitled to share your opinions as you choose. However, I
> would be more comfortable and more receptive to your efforts if you
> could share your perspective without engaging in these kinds of
> tactics. I think someone else mentioned Marshall Rosenberg’s,
> Nonviolent Communication, which if you have not already discovered
> it, is a great resource for learning constructive approaches to
> communication congruent with the norms of this list-serv.
>
> Sincerely,
> Karen
>
>
>
> lumina fr. L. light, air, opening...
>
> Karen Sella
> Coaching: www.luminacoaching.com
> Consulting: www.integralventures.com
> Phone: 1.206.780.2998
> Skype: karensella
>
>
> The information contained in this message may be privileged,
> confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the
> intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is
> strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this
> message in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete the
> message and any attachments.
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Kaliya *
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:49 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [OSLIST] re honouring each other
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Chris Corrigan
> <chris.corrigan at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm a little late to this conversation but I'd like to add my two
> cents.
>
> Thank you to all who hold space for the various ways that we are
> able to connect our work to people that need it. And thank you to
> Michael for the tireless work he does on the openspace world website.
>
> No one controls the number one spot in Google. It's all about how
> many people link to you. If you have quality stuff and people link
> to it you'll go higher in the rankings. I have no doubt that the
> ning site has all the potential to be number one and that would be
> great. But let's be clear that there is no way to conspire to keep
> others out of the top spots.
>
> These strange personal attacks on the list do nothing to advance
> the community's work. It is highly out of character for this
> community to engage like this. I know everyone involved in this
> dispute personally and I am having a hard time ascribing motives or
> squaring what I am reading with what i know of these people
> personally.
>
> We can all be prickly at times but is this a fight that is
> necessary to have?
>
> Yes.
>
> It got some things out in the open and on the table.
> Clarity about who owns and controls what and how they "really" want
> to manage/hold things on behalf of the community.
>
> Now that things are clearer we have more options - more openness -
> rather then being stuck in what was a dysfunctional default (the
> way it always was).
>
> I realized in working with a journalism focused group that the tech
> industry has a "higher normative conflict level" then many other
> professional fields.
>
> The primary community that I facilitate open space for in that
> world - the Internet Identity Workshop - http://
> www.internetidentityworkshop.com is going into it's 10th meeting
> this coming May. The largest tech companies on the web are all in
> there and all in sort of ongoing "perma-conflict" re how things
> will evolve and they all love each other and cooperate with each
> other.
>
> I am sorry if this dialogue has made those of you who as
> facilitators are conflict averse feel "uncomfortable" but it is
> through naming and challenging and getting clarity about what
> people really mean and what their intentions are that we can move
> forward.
>
>
> -Kaliya
>
>
> With gratitude for passion bounded by responsibility.
>
> Chris
> -----
> CHRIS CORRIGAN
> http://www.chriscorrigan.com
>
> Sent from an iPod, typed with thumbs...
>
>
> On 2009-11-18, at 3:18, Tree Fitzpatrick
> <therese.fitzpatrick at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For what it is worth, I experience Kaliya's comments as powerful,
>> even courageous efforts to open space.
>>
>> For what it is worth, I experience Michael's comments as name-
>> calling, denigrating, invalidating, dishonoring. I find myself
>> wishing he would make less attack statements and more 'I'
>> statements, telling us what he thinks and feels without attacking
>> others shared thoughts and feelings.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Karen Sella
>> <karen at luminacoaching.com> wrote:
>> For what it's worth, I experienced all the comments from Michael
>> and others
>> as adding useful perspectives to the conversation--not
>> invalidating or
>> dishonoring... just sharing yet another perspective.
>>
>> Warmly,
>> Karen
>>
>>
>>
>> Karen Sella
>> Coaching: www.luminacoaching.com
>> Consulting: www.integralventures.com
>> Blog: www.lumina.typepad.com
>> Phone: 1.206.780.2998
>> Skype: karensella
>>
>>
>> lumina fr. L. light, air, opening...
>>
>>
>>
>> The information contained in this message may be privileged,
>> confidential
>> and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended
>> recipient, any
>> dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If
>> you think
>> that you have received this message in error, please notify the
>> sender by
>> reply and delete the message and any attachments.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of
>> Kathie
>> Wallace
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:10 AM
>> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>> Subject: [OSLIST] re honouring each other
>>
>> Hi Everyone,
>> I have been following this community for a while and will soon start
>> sharing info. Many thanks for all the enlivening info. I am grateful.
>> I feel the need to speak in response to Michael's comments re
>> Kaliya's
>> thoughts.
>> OST is about staying open and positive and welcoming of all
>> perspectives
>> and ideas, as I experience it. Critiquing and judging and saying
>> "no" to
>> ideas stops the new, constantly self-emerging outflowing of ideas
>> that is
>> creating a continual shared meaning among us all that excites me
>> to no
>> end.
>>
>> All of Kaliya's ideas are valid.
>>
>> Michael, may I suggest you own your own ideas more powerfully by
>> using
>> phrases like "in my opinion" or using the pronoun "I" rather than
>> "you"
>> when you share your own ideas.
>>
>> ...and on with the OST dance,
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Kathie Wallace
>> Vancouver, BC, Canada
>>
>> *
>> *
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Love rays,
>> Tree Fitzpatrick (check out my new address)
>>
>>
>> . . . the great and incalculable grace of love, which says, with
>> Augustine, "I want you to be," without being able to give any
>> particular reason for such supreme and unsurpassable affirmation.
>> -- Hannah Arendt
>>
>> 2175 Kittredge St Apt 615
>> Berkeley, CA 94704
>> 510-665-4825
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