re honouring each other

Karen Sella karen at luminacoaching.com
Thu Nov 19 19:04:49 PST 2009


Hi Kaliya,

 

I agree that this conversation has been useful in helping you organize your
efforts around more truth, and I'm delighted that you are taking
responsibility for your passion in and for this community.  I appreciate
your desire to offer more alternatives and educate those of us with less
technical prowess about the various options.  However, when you make
disparaging remarks about Michael (or anyone) and his website, I feel
disrespected as a member of this community.  When you characterize a member
of our community as a "dominating" "dictator" who's "blocking progress" and
being dishonest-not "coming clean"-I distrust both your motives and your
capacity for civil discourse.  When you frame his website as a
"dysfunctional default" that is somehow less than the "new and better real
home" for this community that your efforts will provide, I feel sad that in
your efforts to build something new, you neglect to express more
appreciation for what is and what has been.  These comments seem
unnecessarily dismissive and partial, and undermine my desire to receive
your potentially valuable contribution.  However, being open-minded, I
followed the link in your invitation, and upon arriving there was
disappointed to find more negative commentary about Michael and his website
amidst more productive suggestions about possible options.  

 


While various professions do indeed have different "normative conflict
levels," and there are those in all professions who could be described as
"conflict-averse," I suspect that much discomfort here has less to do with
normative conflict levels than differing norms about how to deal with
conflict.  As my messages to date must demonstrate, I am not
conflict-averse, but I am averse to personal attacks.  Blaming, name-calling
and yelling make me uncomfortable.  Unless one happens to be shouting for
joy, shouting actually makes it more difficult for me to hear and listen.
In my experience, these kinds of tactics, which we all are guilty of
engaging in from time to time, close rather than open space.  

 

I understand from what you have shared that you are really attempting to
open space and improve this community's online experience.  I can imagine
how frustrating it must be to have a clear vision of what you want and feel
unheard or thwarted in your attempts to garner the support to make it
happen, and you are, of course, entitled to share your opinions as you
choose.  However, I would be more comfortable and more receptive to your
efforts if you could share your perspective without engaging in these kinds
of tactics.  I think someone else mentioned Marshall Rosenberg's, Nonviolent
<http://www.amazon.com/Nonviolent-Communication-Language-Marshall-Rosenberg/
dp/1892005034/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258675009&sr=8-1>
Communication, which if you have not already discovered it, is a great
resource for learning constructive approaches to communication congruent
with the norms of this list-serv.  

 

Sincerely,

Karen

 

 

 <http://www.luminacoaching.com/> 

 <http://www.luminacoaching.com/> 

 lumina fr. L. light, air, opening... 

 

Karen Sella 

Coaching:   <http://www.luminacoaching.com> www.luminacoaching.com

Consulting:   <http://www.integralventures.com> www.integralventures.com

Phone: 1.206.780.2998

Skype: karensella

 

 

The information contained in this message may be privileged, confidential
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  _____  

From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kaliya *
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:49 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: [OSLIST] re honouring each other

 

 

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Chris Corrigan <chris.corrigan at gmail.com>
wrote:

I'm a little late to this conversation but I'd like to add my two cents. 

 

Thank you to all who hold space for the various ways that we are able to
connect our work to people that need it. And thank you to Michael for the
tireless work he does on the openspace world website. 

 

No one controls the number one spot in Google. It's all about how many
people link to you. If you have quality stuff and people link to it you'll
go higher in the rankings. I have no doubt that the ning site has all the
potential to be number one and that would be great. But let's be clear that
there is no way to conspire to keep others out of the top spots. 

 

These strange personal attacks on the list do nothing to advance the
community's work. It is highly out of character for this community to engage
like this. I know everyone involved in this dispute personally and I am
having a hard time ascribing motives or squaring what I am reading with what
i know of these people personally. 

 

We can all be prickly at times but is this a fight that is necessary to
have?


Yes.

It got some things out in the open and on the table. 
Clarity about who owns and controls what and how they "really" want to
manage/hold things on behalf of the community. 

Now that things are clearer we have more options - more openness - rather
then being stuck in what was a dysfunctional default (the way it always
was). 

I realized in working with a journalism focused group that the tech industry
has a "higher normative conflict level" then many other professional fields.


The primary community that I facilitate open space for in that world - the
Internet Identity Workshop - http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com is
going into it's 10th meeting this coming May.  The largest tech companies on
the web are all in there and all in sort of ongoing "perma-conflict" re how
things will evolve and they all love each other and cooperate with each
other. 

I am sorry if this dialogue has made those of you who as facilitators are
conflict averse feel "uncomfortable" but it is through naming and
challenging and getting clarity about what people really mean and what their
intentions are that we can move forward. 


-Kaliya
 

 

With gratitude for passion bounded by responsibility. 

 

Chris

-----

CHRIS CORRIGAN

http://www.chriscorrigan.com

 

Sent from an iPod, typed with thumbs...

 


On 2009-11-18, at 3:18, Tree Fitzpatrick <therese.fitzpatrick at gmail.com>
wrote:

For what it is worth, I experience Kaliya's comments as powerful, even
courageous efforts to open space.

For what it is worth, I experience Michael's comments as name-calling,
denigrating, invalidating, dishonoring. I find myself wishing he would make
less attack statements and more 'I' statements, telling us what he thinks
and feels without attacking others shared thoughts and feelings.

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Karen Sella <
<mailto:karen at luminacoaching.com> karen at luminacoaching.com> wrote:

For what it's worth, I experienced all the comments from Michael and others
as adding useful perspectives to the conversation--not invalidating or
dishonoring... just sharing yet another perspective.

Warmly,
Karen



Karen Sella
Coaching:   <http://www.luminacoaching.com> www.luminacoaching.com
Consulting:   <http://www.integralventures.com> www.integralventures.com
Blog:  <http://www.lumina.typepad.com> www.lumina.typepad.com
Phone: 1.206.780.2998
Skype: karensella


lumina fr. L. light, air, opening...



The information contained in this message may be privileged, confidential
and protected from disclosure.  If you are not the intended recipient, any
dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited.  If you think
that you have received this message in error, please notify the sender by
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-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto: <mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kathie
Wallace
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:10 AM
To:  <mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: [OSLIST] re honouring each other

Hi Everyone,
I have been following this community for a while and will soon start
sharing info. Many thanks for all the enlivening info. I am grateful.
I feel the need to speak in response to Michael's comments re Kaliya's
thoughts.
OST is about staying open and positive and welcoming of all perspectives
and ideas, as I experience it. Critiquing and judging and saying "no" to
ideas stops the new, constantly self-emerging outflowing of ideas that is
creating a continual shared meaning among us all that excites me to no
end.

All of Kaliya's ideas are valid.

Michael, may I suggest you own your own ideas more powerfully by using
phrases like "in my opinion" or using the pronoun "I" rather than "you"
when you share your own ideas.

...and on with the OST dance,

Sincerely,
Kathie Wallace
Vancouver, BC, Canada

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-- 
Love rays,
Tree Fitzpatrick  (check out my new address)


. . . the great and incalculable grace of love, which says, with Augustine,
"I want you to be," without being able to give any particular reason for
such supreme and unsurpassable affirmation.  -- Hannah Arendt

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