Come join us at Open Space Technology World Community Ning site!!

[Kaliya *]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Harold Shinsato <harold at shinsato.com>wrote:

>  Hi Kaliya, while I'm not as uncomfortable with closed proprietary
> standards, I think that's mostly a weakness on my part and I applaud your
> call for us to use more open standards.
>
you need to pick "open platforms" that use "open standards"

open platforms (that you can download, tweek and install "yourself" on your
servers (or host in the cloud - but that you manage)

I would start with a community blog on wordpress (I have said this before -
not rocket science)
I would install Media wiki or dekiwiki or any one of several other open
source and mainstream wiki platforms.

Both of them should use OpenID for Login.

Open Standards in this space are just emering and libraries/modules are
being built out for open platforms.  They include activity streams, XRD,
Webfinger, Salmon-Protocol, OAuth, WARP. etc... I don't want to go into what
they all mean but they are about building distributed (not on one platform
with one name space) open versions of what Ning and other closed networks
like Facebook and Myspace. Goodnews is that Myspace is a leading player in


> I don't think it's going to happen without leaders to take it on. I'm
> willing to chip in for something - how can we make it happen? What sets of
> standards to you recommend? I think we could do it for less than $150 a year
> - but maybe there's a way to do it cheaper?
>

Space costs money. not that much but why the focus on "super cheap" all the
time.

What I am proposing costs far less in "fees" to run per year then it would
in actually investing in design to make it both beautiful and information
architecturally sound.

It is not complicated - it does require thought and sound reasoning - I
think the appropriate home is OSI - where there shoudl be enough budget to
do the basics of what I have "proposed" I say propsed in qutes cause "I
don't know the answer" it needs to be a dialgoue about what are the use
cases (stories of how we want to use  the web together to share our work
with each other and the world) a dialogue about what the values are behind
our choices and what ones are more important (cause you always make
compromises in choosing tech) - for example

do we have a value that when possible we choose an open source
tool/platform?

 are we committed to supporting and adopting open standards for people on
the web that support them moving about with autonomy and agency (not getting
a new user/name and password on every website)

what I have outlined is based on an assumption that we "do" but we have not
talked about it as a community and then made consious choices with those in
mind .

We have defaulted to what one guy did many many years ago and then left it
at that because it was "sufficient" - I don't think it is any longer. It is
not managed in a collaborative way. This management style does not reflect
the values of Open Space. It is also "unsafe" that if this key person "gets
hit by a truck" we loose it completely (they know all the passwords to get
in and manage it an no one else does) Not good. Irresponsible in today's
world.


> If not, I'm willing to put some $ into it, though it may not get used if
> folks don't "get it" the way you do... Any thoughts about how to get broad
> adoption? Anyway, consider me a helper if you want to spearhead something.
>

It would be great to have you as a helper.
I am prepared to contribute to OS Institute work on this front.

-Kaliya



>
>     Harold
>
>
> Kaliya * wrote:
>
> While appreciate the invitation to this space.
>
> I really object to bringing the community to private service.  The company
> NING is just like facebook or myspace it is managed and controlled
> ultimately by a corporation.
>
> It is closed source (the code that is used underlying the site is owned and
> not viewable by us).
>
>   The data of our use and the people on it - it is not clear about where it
> goes.
>
> The community life all the information is "stuck" in the system - it is not
> using open standards - so that at some point we wanted to leave NING we
> could.
>
> Ning does not have open standards avaliable for the activities on the site
> and HAS NOT BEEN INVOLVED IN ANY of the conversations around developing or
> adopting those under development for social activities on the web.
>
> There is NO Reason to do this.
>
> I think it would be much more responsible to get a  REAL COMMUNITY LIFE
> AROUND
>
> 1) A WIKI that is build on an open source "mainstream" wiki.
> 2) A BLOG with community members contributing to and with different members
> free to start their own blogs
> 3) A robust commenting system
> 4) A twitter strategy for lists and community connections in that medium.
>
> ALL of the above can be built on open source tools
> On servers that we manage and control. ( Or in the cloud but on our terms
> and we can move to a new service if we don't like. )
>
> No corporate entity can choose to turn it off.  We "own" it.
>
> All of the above can implement a common way to let members of the community
> login across all of them with one login/password using OpenID.
>
> NING HAS NOT PLANS to Implement OpenID - (or any of the other standards)
> http://developer.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=1185512%3ATopic%3A11361
>
>
> I have been talking about this for well over a year but apparently there is
> no movement by the Open Space institute by the actually developing the
> community tools in community.
>
>
>   *Kaliya * <identitywoman at gmail.com> *
> To: OSLIST <OSLIST at listserv.boisestate.edu>
>   *Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 8:10 PM *
>     Lisa just pinged me about this e-mail on the list and asked I respond.
>
> I don't have time until next week to surface and comment fully. I on the
> 4th day of 12 days in a row of "traditional" conferences that I attending as
> a participant speaker.
>
>
> At the core of a comment I made in response to a request for a donation to
> the OSI USA.
> I would like to see the core community site have:
> * a mainstream wiki that has broad access rights.  (this is an editable
> website) yes there is currently a wiki - and no it is not a current
> mainstream wiki platform (there for has a non-normal syntax) and it has
> restricted access rights.
> * an aggregation of blogs and another one for microblogging for
> practitioners  that pulls in the feeds from all the things that
> practitioners publish in these formats aggregated (via RSS) into one space
> (example from my technical community is Planet Identity (
> http://www.planetidentity.org)
> * admin access rights and responsibility held by several people (not just
> one person who if hit by a truck basically limits capacity of the whole
> community to function).
>
> -Kaliya
>
> TECHNOLOGY strategy for this community should be done in an open
> transparent way.
>
> It should use "the best of" open source (this is very different then "free
> tools" that are closed source and corporate owned with "them untimately in
> control)  and focus on using open standards where possible.
>
> It should be developed in a way that includes the wisdom of those of us
> with tech backgrounds and done in a way that explains our decisions to smart
> people who are "not techies" so they understand the decisions/strategies and
> agree they are in alignment with the community values and vision.
>
>
> *global proceedings aggregator?*
> ------------------------------
>   *Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com> *  *Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at
> 11:54 PM *
> Reply-To: OSLIST <OSLIST at listserv.boisestate.edu>
>  To: OSLIST at listserv.boisestate.edu
>
>       here's a new one, i think.  for the techies among us.
>
> how would you capture proceedings if you were to have, say, dozens, or
> even hundreds of events convened simultaneously and you wanted
> everybody everywhere to be able to post their proceedings into one
> central place.  everybody except spammers, of course.  videos can be
> posted to youtube and tagged.  photos to flickr.  but what about the
> text proceedings?  and there is also the issue of a directory of event
> locations.  hoping this wouldn't require a dedicated
> application/platform.  here are some ideas.
>
> -listserve like yahoo or google group - non-public is a downside
> -facebook group - non-public is downside here too
> -wiki - might be too complex for rapid scale-up
> -blog - might be coolest, but might require moderation
> -twitter - might there be a way to collect only the issues raised
> everywhere?  tagged by location, perhaps?  could happen more places
> cuz could send from cellphones?
> -blog - could make a post or page for every event reported and then
> let them post comments.
> -just get everyone to start their own simple, free blog and use a blog
> aggregator... might miss a lot of sites.
> -google docs?
> -blog with a single "guest/contributor" username and password,
> publicly posted, with user only allowed to post reports, tagging for
> author and location within the post?
>
> ...this last option might be best, but then we get to the question of
> what if it all really works and folks wanted to post some stream of
> ongoing results and actions.  could happen.  so the system might want
> to support that.
>
> anything else you can think of out there in social networking space
> that could support such a thing?
>
> i think i like the twitter option, but have no idea if it can be made
> to function in this way.  could all of this be aimed at a single
> twitter name, or just tagged with a single twitter tag?  and somehow
> captured in a way taht was searchable and scrollable long after the
> first events occured?
> then there's the scenario where somehow we get to hack up a new
> version of the world map <grin>.
> so that's as far as i can guess, and maybe even a little past that.
>  thoughts?
> many thanks,
>
> m
>
>
> I read now that someone wrote in this thread "that NING does all this"  I
> should have brought forward these concerns then and perhaps get movement
> going in an open direction. I am sorry i didn't track that thread.  When I
> popped up and made the preceding comment I prefaced it saying I was in the
> middle of conference season.
>
> You are all in luck. I just "finished" my unconference season and have time
> to actually give to the communities I love and care about.
>
> I appreciate the care and attention that *Artur Silva (Portugal), Shufang
> Tsai (Taiwan) and Lisa Heft (USA) have put forward to do this.
>
> I get that it was a utilitarian choice and was not informed by deeper
> issues and values choices that are being made by using closed source,
> proprietary and non-open standards based tools.  It was only done in love
> with the best intentions. I feel I have to speak up because I am
> technologically literate particularly in this area about openness and
> standards - it is where my core open space facilitation work is - with
> communities developing an open layer of the web that is social and community
> driven.
>
> I hope that I can work with others in the community who want to make the
> most open choices possible and a collaborative on a future looking
> online/tech strategy for the community.
> *
> Regards,
> -Kaliya
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Lisa Heft <lisaheft at openingspace.net>wrote:
>
>>      *
>> Artur Silva (Portugal), Shufang Tsai (Taiwan) and Lisa Heft (USA)
>>  welcome you to join us at the:
>>
>>  Open Space World Community Ning site
>> A gathering place for sharing, learning, resources and community.
>>
>>  -- create and host or join a regional group in your own language
>> -- see the photos of members - including your wonderful OSLIST colleagues
>> -- post links to photos, videos, tweets or blogs
>> -- create calendar listings for your events
>> -- post and share resources
>> -- create or join a theme-based group about whatever you would like!
>> -- engage in live chat.
>>
>>  This co-created Ning web portal for all things Open Space is a
>> compliment to the rich and welcoming dialogue of OSLIST and all our
>> web-based resources such as openspaceworld.org
>> It is free.
>> Come and co-create.
>> The seedling has sprouted - let us grow this lovely learning tree.
>> Jump right on - sign in - create your own page and begin.
>>
>>
>>   *
>>
>> (*It is new...in its Beta stage...we are still trying out design and
>> functions...come visit us there, enjoy using it, share any ideas for
>> improvement you may recommend...there is even a 'Caring for this Online
>> Community' Group you can join...and if anything does not work smoothly we
>> will all learn and share how to fix it..*.)
>>
>>     *
>>
>>
>>  Do join us in this nutritious and diverse community meeting place.
>>
>>  http://openspaceworld.ning.com
>>
>>
>> We will continue our rich and vibrant dialogues here on OSLIST, and we
>> will see you also in the Open Space World Community Ning site...
>>
>>  Artur, Shufang and Lisa
>>
>>>       *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> * *
>> *
>> *
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