Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?

Sun Jun 21 10:00:23 PDT 2009

Artur, thanks for opening the space for this conversation about principles.
As a designer, we always work from principles which become even more
important when design is collaborative dialogue, in the David Bohm sense of
dialogue. Principles in this context at the same time describe and invite.
When they are right, they are beautiful and they inspire new conversations
that provide the foundation for what we can imagine and do together that we
could never do apart.
With gratitude, Jack

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
DesigningLife.com

On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Artur Silva <arturfsilva at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Larry:
>
>
>
> I am sorry but only today I had the time to answer you.
>
>
>
> We certainly need foundations or principles to Open Space.
>
>
>
> But I prefer the word "foundations" instead of "principles" because, due to
> the man of the hat, this word is connected forever (only) with "the 4
> principles". And I think that that there are other principles (foundations)
> as important as, or even more important than, the 4 so called principles.
>
>
>
> Indeed I think (sorry Harrison) that the expression "The 4 principles" was
> badly chosen.
>
>
>
> Because it they are "what always happens" they are not principles at all.
> And because we think that we must state the principles in the beginning of
> every session (I myself to that the majority o the times - but not always")
> and I am more and more convinced that they are useless. You can state them
> or nor, and the same things will occur. They are probably "one less thing to
> do/state".
>
>
>
> But there are other principles or foundations that are essential, in the
> sense that if they are not present different things will happen.
>
>
>
> In the discussion I opened in our wiki some years ago I proposed the
> following:
>
>
>
> 3. I would suggest, as HO wrote in the old User’s Guide, that OST begins
> with:
>
>    - A THEME that is compelling enough, but also general and open enough
>    to let people dream about and
>    - A GROUP OF COMMITED PEOPLE (reason for the presences to be almost
>    always voluntary)
>    - Enough DIVERSITY in the group
>
> 4. To those foundations one can add others that are generally accepted by
> all practitioners:
>
>    - The CIRCLE (even if, in some cases, some argue that a "virtual
>    circle" will do)
>    - The Bulletin Board
>    - The Market Place
>    - The "law of two feet" (one of the most, if not the most important
>    feature, from where butterflies and bumblebees "germinate" and many
>    conflicts "evaporate")
>    - The "four principles" (as I have promised ;-)
>
>
>
> (http://www.openspaceworld.org/cgi/netwiki.cgi?FoundationsofOST)
>
>
>
> If I were to rewrite this today, I would surely suppress the last line. But
> all the other "foundations" (including the law of two feet) are essential.
> If you suppress one of them you will have a meeting; but not, IMHO, an OST
> meeting. But we may not talk at all about the "4 principles" and everything
> will happen as usual.
>
>
>
> Best regrsds to all
>
>
>
> Artur
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On *Thu, 5/28/09, Larry Peterson <larry at spiritedorg.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Larry Peterson <larry at spiritedorg.com>
> Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009, 5:22 PM
>
>
>  Maybe a “foundation” is another word for how I often describe the
> “principles”.  I encourage people, when I open a space, to make some
> assumptions about the gathering to assume what are stated as principles and
> to act on that basis during the event.  I think these only become “assumed”
> after some evolution of consciousness and I don’t experience most folks in
> organizations being there.  I think it is important to articulate them, to
> influence the “social construction” of the boundaries of the OST event along
> with the most important part – the focus question or theme.  Yep, it may be
> a bit of ritualized behaviour but I think it helps increase the
> possibilities what will emerge in the self-organizing process that will
> happen anyway.  Besides, I (we as facilitators) are one of the “selves” in
> the self-organization.
>
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
> Larry Peterson & Associates in Transformation
>
> Toronto, Ontario, Canada
>
> *larry at spiritedorg.com*<http://us.mc546.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=larry@spiritedorg.com>
> 416.653.4829 *http://www.spiritedorg.com* <http://www.spiritedorg.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Artur
> Silva
> *Sent:* May-27-09 5:54 PM
> *To:* OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?
>
>
>
> Harrison, Larry and all:
>
>
>
> I am afraid that I continue to read only the messages from this list from
> time to time...
>
>
>
> Today, I read this answer from Harrison to a reply from Larry to an
> original comment by Harrison. The 3 messages referred are listed below, and
> I ask you to *first read the parts of those messages* that I have
> transformed in bold.
>
>
>
> (...) Thanks for having done that ;-)
>
>
>
> Now, I am happy that Harrison agrees that "*the 4 principles and one law
> are neither laws nor principles actually" *and that *there will come a day
> when The Law and The Principles can be assigned to that wonderful status of
> “One more thing not to do.”*
>
>
>
> But Larry commented, very wisely as usual, about *the importance of some
> form of “boundaries” or “container” for self-organization*.
>
>
>
> So, maybe it is the appropriate time to reintroduce a discussion that I
> have tried to introduce many moons ago, about what are the foundations of
> OST.
>
>
>
> I mean,
>
>
>
> 1) if the principles are not "principles" after all, but only what always
> happens, and eventually even "one more thing not to do" (and I remember you
> that I have done some OST experiments without reference to the Principles -
> and all went well as usual), but
>
>
>
> 2) Some form of boundary or container is needed
>
>
>
> where this boundary or container does comes from?
>
>
>
> I have proposed to call that the "foundations" (not principles) of OST and
> proposed some ideas (that are only preliminary ideas) I would like to read
> (again) your opinions about.
>
>
>
> You can found my (preliminary) proposals, of some time ago, here
>
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/cgi/netwiki.cgi?FoundationsofOST
>
>
>
> and here
>
>
>
>
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0401&L=oslist&P=R23925&I=-3&X=6543D44B5D0A7C3BC4&Y=arturfsilva%40yahoo.com
> .
>
>
>
> Looking forward to hear from you all
>
>
>
> Warn regards from a warm night in Lisbon
>
>
>
> Artur
>
>
>
> ------
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 5/27/09, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 7:23 AM
>
> Right on Larry – and I found a very curious and embarrassing typo in my
> small piece. I said, “They (the Principles and the Law) are descriptive as
> opposed to descriptive.” I meant to say,”They are descriptive as opposed to
> prescriptive.” *Point is neither the Law nor the Principles tell you what
> to do – they simply alert everybody to what will be taking place no matter
> what.* I think that is a useful function, *but it really doesn’t change a
> thing*. *In short – there will come a day when The Law and The Principles
> can be assigned to that wonderful status of “One more thing not to do.”*
>
>
>
> Harrison
>
>
>
> Harrison Owen
>
> 7808 River Falls Drive
>
> Potomac, Maryland   20854
>
> Phone 301-365-2093
>
> Skype hhowen
>
> Open Space Training *www.openspaceworld.com*<http://www.openspaceworld.com/>
>
> Open Space Institute *www.openspaceworld.org*<http://www.openspaceworld.org/>
>
> Personal website *www.ho-image.com* <http://www.ho-image.com/>
>
> OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the
> archives Visit: *www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html*<http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Larry
> Peterson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:44 AM
> *To:* OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: Anti Laws of OST
>
>
>
> For me, there is more sense in the “Principles and Law” than non-sense. Stewart Kauffman explores
> *the importance of some form of “boundaries” or “container” for
> self-organization*, particularly that of cells.  He believes (with strong
> scientific evidence) that *real physical work only gets done within some
> “boundaries” or it dissipates*.  Cells, he asserts, co-create their
> “boundaries” with their environment through self-organizing relationships in
> every moment.  The boundaries are permeable, constructs, open to
> interchange with their environment. (No such thing as a closed system!)
>
>
>
> Harrison, *I believe you have articulated a set of socially constructed
> permeable “boundaries” for enhancing human self-organization* – including
> the focus/theme, principles and law.  These set a temporary set of
> “boundaries” or a “container” both focused and open that change the
> perceived conditions for self-organization at an event or meeting. Self-organization is happening all the time, in every moment.
>   Our mental maps (in practice) and feelings shape what we do as we
> self-organize – what topics we propose and who we connect to.  Are they
> necessary for self-organization (Open Space) – no, it is happening all the
> time as order emerges.  Do they (*or other similar statements* about the
> social framework for our self-organizing) help people to self-organize in
> exciting and creative ways?  I think so.
>
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
> Larry Peterson & Associates in Transformation
>
> Toronto, Ontario, Canada
>
> *larry at spiritedorg.com*<http://us.mc546.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=larry@spiritedorg.com>
>    416.653.4829 *http://www.spiritedorg.com* <http://www.spiritedorg.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Harrison
> Owen
> *Sent:* May-25-09 2:59 PM
> *To:* OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST
>
>
>
> Just to render the whole thing non-sensical, *the 4 principles and one law
> are neither laws nor principles actually*. To be honest *they are just my
> (and others’) observations of what seemed to be happening in any case*. In
> a word they are descriptive as opposed to descriptive – You could say it is
> all a joke. *Rather like “technology” in the phrase Open Space Technology*.
> The joke, however turned out to be outrageously funny – because somehow or
> another truth broke through. We are in serious trouble! Everybody knows that
> what happens in Open Space simply can’t happen. Unfortunately it does – and
> that makes a joke out of a whole mess of other stuff – like most of what we
> think we know about meetings, the management of meetings, and management
> itself. Double trouble!!
>
>
>
> Harrison
>
>
>
> Harrison Owen
>
> 7808 River Falls Drive
>
> Potomac, Maryland   20854
>
> Phone 301-365-2093
>
> Skype hhowen
>
> Open Space Training *www.openspaceworld.com*<http://www.openspaceworld.com/>
>
> Open Space Institute *www.openspaceworld.org*<http://www.openspaceworld.org/>
>
> Personal website *www.ho-image.com* <http://www.ho-image.com/>
>
> OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the
> archives Visit: *www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html*<http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html>
>
>
>
> .org/oslist
>
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