I guess RE: Open Space being badly defined

Fri Jun 12 09:08:06 PDT 2009

Nicely said.

Erik

On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:11:33 -0400, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:

>Changing OST? I would be delighted if it simply disappeared. Or at least
>disappeared as something we did. The reason is simple. The only way OST and
>what happens in it make any sense to me is to understand the whole thing as
>a fundamental application of the power of self organization. Needless to
>say, I didn't invent self-organization as it seems to have been around well
>before my time. Something like 13.7 billion years, more or less. In a word,
>we are talking about the basic flow power of the cosmos. Somewhere along the
>line we got the notion that it would be a good idea to organize a
>self-organizing system. As I have said on occasion, this is not only an
>oxymoron but stupid. If nothing else we are working twice as hard and only
>screwing up the system. In Open Space, I think we have the opportunity to
>see how it feels when we do it right. Eventually it should occur to us that
>we don't need Open Space as a middle man. I would call that progress.
>
>Harrison
>
>Harrison Owen
>189 Beaucaire Ave
>Camden, ME 04843
>207-763-3261 (Summer)
>301-365-2093 (Winter)
>Website www.openspaceworld.com
>Personal Website www.ho-image.com
>OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options
>http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Erik
>Fabian
>Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:09 AM
>To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>Subject: Re: I guess RE: Open Space being badly defined
>
>Thanks for the note Harrison,
>
>No doubt having a creation story like that is one of the reasons OS
>resonates with many of us, but
>you realize that establishing a creation story is a tactic that is used in
>marketing to establish a
>brand. (Ex. Apple was started by two guys in a garage, or Michael Jordan got
>cut from his high
>school b-ball team, etc.)
>
>Please don't take that observation as accusatory or suggesting you are
>making anything up...the
>marketing folks use that tactic cause it actually happens and it works.
>
>Nor do I suggest you purposely created OS to match your values. It could
>happen that way I
>suppose, but I have never read anything to suggest that.
>
>Perhaps this is a point of disagreement, but I believe that our values are
>reflected in just about
>everything we do. It is hard to get away from them. We might not be
>conscious of all of them or
>even choose to ignore them.
>
>I also think we might, for the sake of discussion, seperate out the creation
>of the A) OS form, and
>B) the rest of the material that explains the form.
>
>Like I said before, I find (A) the OS form to be pretty receptive to other
>value sets...if the
>participant is flexible enough to give the basic ground rules a go. But the
>form does express some
>values.
>
>I would suggest the (B) the explanatory material (both by you and others)
>also expresses a value
>set. Your interpretation and analysis of those questions you took on 4-5
>years later I would guess
>are not only informed by your own values but the social/cultural moment when
>you were
>exploring them. Your interpretation of those questions would differ from
>someone who was more
>about making a buck for instance.
>
>To add one additional element to this, we might consider how values are
>expressed aesthetically.
>The feel of OS both in the language and visuals expresses values. For
>instance OS refers to
>"butterflies & bumble bees" rather than carriers of "social viruses". Feels
>different no?
>
>I don't think you need to rebrand OS. It is a lovely system as is, but it is
>bound to change...and it is
>my guess (based on the values I see expressed in the OS form) that you,
>Harrison, at least would
>be into seeing it change. Am I wrong?
>
>I would assume that OS will change because it is useful and because you have
>so generously given
>your insight away. Perhaps some folks will rediscover the same principles
>and think they are their
>own, perhaps they will "rebrand" OS just to make it feel more like their
>own. That is what I see
>happening at Barcamp...and the now the many other-"camps".
>
>Most folks who go to those other-"camps" have no clue what OS is and don't
>care cause the
>Barcamp idea is hip and the level of participation it offers blows their
>mind.
>
>Fun chatting.
>
>Cheers,
>Erik
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:20:31 -0400, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Erik -- Not to worry about accusation. It is doubtless deserved. But let's
>>go a little bit further. On the question of values, you mention that OST
>was
>>"rooted in a set of values." That would suggest that we started with a set
>>of values and then designed OST to match -- would it not? But the truth of
>>the matter is rather different. I simply had a conference to run, and was
>>too lazy and lacked sufficient time to do what most people did (Planning
>>groups, etc). To ease the pain and enjoy the Washington Spring I had two
>>martinis on my patio in April of 1985. By the end of the second (martini)
>>OST had been born -- Sit in a circle, create a bulletin board, open a
>market
>>place, and go to work. In July we (85 folks) "did it" and it worked, which
>>is to say we created a 5 day symposium with multiple sessions all of which
>>took place with little to no fuss. Not a planning committee or management
>>committee in sight. It wasn't that we were anti-planning or management;
>>neither were needed. Of course that raises all sorts of questions about the
>>utility/effectiveness of planning and management but none of us went there
>>at that point. Indeed it was only 4-5 years later that I really took OST
>>seriously and began to consider the questions it raised. Those questions
>>were appalling, for if valid virtually everything I knew from theory and
>>practice about the management of meetings, indeed management itself -- all
>>went poof. Not a comfortable experience only made worse by the fact that I
>>discovered that client groups were able to accomplish in 2 days what had
>>been taking them ten months to two years. The effect on my billable hours
>>was catastrophic. At some level I almost wish that I had never drunk the
>>martinis. I could have made a lot more money and nobody would be thinking
>>that what I did was weird, to say nothing of counterintuitive and heretical
>>(in need of ï¿½rebrandingï¿½ :-)).
>>
>>
>>
>>A saving grace was the fact that Open Space is fun, and that people are fun
>>to be with in Open Space. That has been true for me all over the world. I
>>guess there are people who don't want to have any fun and run away when
>>folks get excited, innovative, creative and intense -- after all things
>>could get out of control! God love them and for sure they can be as
>>miserable as the want. I won't say a word. But for my self I truly enjoy a
>>full, open, joyous, fun life -- and wouldn't have it any other way. Ah --
>>you got me! My values are sneaking through.
>>
>>
>>
>>Harrison
>>
>>
>>
>>Harrison Owen
>>
>>189 Beaucaire Ave
>>
>>Camden, ME 04843
>>
>>207-763-3261 (Summer)
>>
>>301-365-2093 (Winter)
>>
>>Website www.openspaceworld.com
>>
>>Personal Website www.ho-image.com
>>
>>OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options
>>http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>>
>>
>
>*
>*
>==========================================================
>OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>------------------------------
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
>view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
>To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
>http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
>*
>*
>==========================================================
>OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>------------------------------
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
>view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
>To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
>http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>===========================================================
==============

*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist