I guess RE: Open Space being badly defined

Thu Jun 11 13:11:33 PDT 2009

Changing OST? I would be delighted if it simply disappeared. Or at least
disappeared as something we did. The reason is simple. The only way OST and
what happens in it make any sense to me is to understand the whole thing as
a fundamental application of the power of self organization. Needless to
say, I didn't invent self-organization as it seems to have been around well
before my time. Something like 13.7 billion years, more or less. In a word,
we are talking about the basic flow power of the cosmos. Somewhere along the
line we got the notion that it would be a good idea to organize a
self-organizing system. As I have said on occasion, this is not only an
oxymoron but stupid. If nothing else we are working twice as hard and only
screwing up the system. In Open Space, I think we have the opportunity to
see how it feels when we do it right. Eventually it should occur to us that
we don't need Open Space as a middle man. I would call that progress.

Harrison

Harrison Owen
189 Beaucaire Ave
Camden, ME 04843
207-763-3261 (Summer)
301-365-2093 (Winter)
Website www.openspaceworld.com 
Personal Website www.ho-image.com 
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-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Erik
Fabian
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:09 AM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: I guess RE: Open Space being badly defined

Thanks for the note Harrison,

No doubt having a creation story like that is one of the reasons OS
resonates with many of us, but 
you realize that establishing a creation story is a tactic that is used in
marketing to establish a 
brand. (Ex. Apple was started by two guys in a garage, or Michael Jordan got
cut from his high 
school b-ball team, etc.)

Please don't take that observation as accusatory or suggesting you are
making anything up...the 
marketing folks use that tactic cause it actually happens and it works.

Nor do I suggest you purposely created OS to match your values. It could
happen that way I 
suppose, but I have never read anything to suggest that.

Perhaps this is a point of disagreement, but I believe that our values are
reflected in just about 
everything we do. It is hard to get away from them. We might not be
conscious of all of them or 
even choose to ignore them.

I also think we might, for the sake of discussion, seperate out the creation
of the A) OS form, and 
B) the rest of the material that explains the form.

Like I said before, I find (A) the OS form to be pretty receptive to other
value sets...if the 
participant is flexible enough to give the basic ground rules a go. But the
form does express some 
values.

I would suggest the (B) the explanatory material (both by you and others)
also expresses a value 
set. Your interpretation and analysis of those questions you took on 4-5
years later I would guess 
are not only informed by your own values but the social/cultural moment when
you were 
exploring them. Your interpretation of those questions would differ from
someone who was more 
about making a buck for instance.

To add one additional element to this, we might consider how values are
expressed aesthetically. 
The feel of OS both in the language and visuals expresses values. For
instance OS refers to 
"butterflies & bumble bees" rather than carriers of "social viruses". Feels
different no?

I don't think you need to rebrand OS. It is a lovely system as is, but it is
bound to change...and it is 
my guess (based on the values I see expressed in the OS form) that you,
Harrison, at least would 
be into seeing it change. Am I wrong?

I would assume that OS will change because it is useful and because you have
so generously given 
your insight away. Perhaps some folks will rediscover the same principles
and think they are their 
own, perhaps they will "rebrand" OS just to make it feel more like their
own. That is what I see 
happening at Barcamp...and the now the many other-"camps".

Most folks who go to those other-"camps" have no clue what OS is and don't
care cause the 
Barcamp idea is hip and the level of participation it offers blows their
mind.

Fun chatting.

Cheers,
Erik

On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:20:31 -0400, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
wrote:

>Erik -- Not to worry about accusation. It is doubtless deserved. But let's
>go a little bit further. On the question of values, you mention that OST
was
>"rooted in a set of values." That would suggest that we started with a set
>of values and then designed OST to match -- would it not? But the truth of
>the matter is rather different. I simply had a conference to run, and was
>too lazy and lacked sufficient time to do what most people did (Planning
>groups, etc). To ease the pain and enjoy the Washington Spring I had two
>martinis on my patio in April of 1985. By the end of the second (martini)
>OST had been born -- Sit in a circle, create a bulletin board, open a
market
>place, and go to work. In July we (85 folks) "did it" and it worked, which
>is to say we created a 5 day symposium with multiple sessions all of which
>took place with little to no fuss. Not a planning committee or management
>committee in sight. It wasn't that we were anti-planning or management;
>neither were needed. Of course that raises all sorts of questions about the
>utility/effectiveness of planning and management but none of us went there
>at that point. Indeed it was only 4-5 years later that I really took OST
>seriously and began to consider the questions it raised. Those questions
>were appalling, for if valid virtually everything I knew from theory and
>practice about the management of meetings, indeed management itself -- all
>went poof. Not a comfortable experience only made worse by the fact that I
>discovered that client groups were able to accomplish in 2 days what had
>been taking them ten months to two years. The effect on my billable hours
>was catastrophic. At some level I almost wish that I had never drunk the
>martinis. I could have made a lot more money and nobody would be thinking
>that what I did was weird, to say nothing of counterintuitive and heretical
>(in need of ï¿½rebrandingï¿½ :-)). 
>
> 
>
>A saving grace was the fact that Open Space is fun, and that people are fun
>to be with in Open Space. That has been true for me all over the world. I
>guess there are people who don't want to have any fun and run away when
>folks get excited, innovative, creative and intense -- after all things
>could get out of control! God love them and for sure they can be as
>miserable as the want. I won't say a word. But for my self I truly enjoy a
>full, open, joyous, fun life -- and wouldn't have it any other way. Ah --
>you got me! My values are sneaking through.
>
> 
>
>Harrison
>
> 
>
>Harrison Owen
>
>189 Beaucaire Ave
>
>Camden, ME 04843
>
>207-763-3261 (Summer)
>
>301-365-2093 (Winter)
>
>Website www.openspaceworld.com 
>
>Personal Website www.ho-image.com 
>
>OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options
>http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> 

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>From  Thu Jun 11 23:04:22 2009
Message-Id: <THU.11.JUN.2009.230422.0400.>
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 23:04:22 -0400
Reply-To: 76066.515 at compuserve.com
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
Subject: helping the whole
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Hi--

Another evocative piece from Christopher Alexander:

It is their presence in the whole, and the fact that they are helping
the life of the whole, which gives them their individual life....Italics
in original. Christopher Alexander, The Nature of Order: An Essay on the
Art of Building and The Nature of the Universe, Book One: The Phenomenon
of Life, p 431

What I am seeing here as an inside-out truth, is that in a group we do
not lend the group our individual life, it goes somewhat the other way
round about. What gives us our individual existence and life is our
presence in the group, our helping of the group; in turn the others
helping the group give us life. We intensify each other.

Can this be true?

:- Doug.

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Hi--<BR>
<BR>
Another evocative piece from Christopher Alexander:<BR>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">It is their presence in the whole, and the fact that they are helping the life of the whole, </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><I>which gives them their individual life</I></FONT>...<FONT COLOR="#000000">.Italics in original. Christopher Alexander, </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000"><I>The Nature of Order: An Essay on the Art of Building and The Nature of the Universe, Book One: The Phenomenon of Life</I></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000">, p 431</FONT><BR>
<BR>
What I am seeing here as an inside-out truth, is that in a group we do not lend the group our individual life, it goes somewhat the other way round about. What gives us our individual existence and life is our presence in the group, our helping of the group; in turn the others helping the group give us life. We intensify each other.<BR>
<BR>
Can this be true?<BR>
<BR>
:- Doug.
</BODY>
</HTML>
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