AW: How can we foster sustainable outcomes?
Catherine Pfaehler
c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch
Tue Jun 30 03:21:30 PDT 2009
Dear Reinhard
As you describe it in depth, it becomes more understandable and really
sounds wonderful.
What about writing a book on methods and hints for visual protocols? I
especially like your idea of the participants doing the visual protocols
themselves. Some might even discover they have a talent they weren't aware
of!
And my original question remains open - what do others do to foster
sustainable outcomes?
Heartfully, C.
Catherine Pfaehler Senn
lic.oec.HSG
Open Space Begleitung
St. Alban-Vorstadt 15
CH - 4052 Basel
+41-(0)76 - 488 15 46
c.pfaehler at open-space-begleitung.ch
www.open-space-begleitung.ch
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Reinhard Kuchenmueller [mailto:mail at visuelle-protokolle.de]
Gesendet: Samstag, 27. Juni 2009 07:01
An: c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch; OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Betreff: AW: How can we foster sustainable outcomes?
Dear Catherine,
it seems t get a dialogue between you and me - and Harrison defending his
turf - while all the others are busy discussing Paris Stammtisch and some
problems of dogma and exegesis in the holy principles.
My focus lies on the os meeting. My heart belongs to the paricipating
people, my head to the client behind everything. In a meeting of lets say
200 participants everybody can choose between lets say ten group themes in
every time slot. If it goes for two days, with five time slots, that makes
50 groups of which the everage participant chooses five groups. All the
other groups, their themes, their surprising developments, their exitement,
their outcome, does not exist for him. All the groups make some protocols,
but in the worst possible way, in handwriting, and some typed short version.
Our everage participant does rarely read the outcomes of other groups. The
facilitator made himself invisible and is of little help. So his horizon is
built from 10 percent of the whole meeting. He goes home with a beautiful
experience of team building and self organisation, and some memeory of 10
percent of the meeting. The client goes home with some written excerpts, and
if he is lucky he will be confronted with some ideas afterwards, of people
who want to ontinue their threads. Who is helping him to build the bridge
between his basic theme, his exspectations, and the outcome? The
facilitator? By which means?
I would wish all the os people could take part just once in a visualized os
event. Some witnesses, fair minded, impartial, are moving from group to
group, gathering process, results and atmosphere on small picture cards.
Nobody is noticing them. They put these picture cards into a big picture
wall, all the time, so that everybody who passes can get all the procedures
in some seconds time. And in the evening all the picture cards, digitalized
in the meantime, are shown to the plenum as a slide show with some music,
for about 10 minutes The participants not only increase the memory of their
own group from 20 to 60 percent, as scientists can proove, but at the same
time they get an overview about the whole big theme in all its complexity.
As if they can suddenly see the whole tree, of which they were busy handling
some branches so far. I experienced a deep satisfaction among the
participants every time we did that work. Of course all that is against the
old os dogma, but that does not bother the people at all.
And the client? He gets a detailled insight into all the groups. The little
images can be used in many ways to foster sustainable outcomes, as you say.
They can be clustered, regrouped, with atonishing results, showing what
people really said and mean.They can be used as material to work with in
smaller groups who continue with some items, they can be put into the
intranet, printed as leaflets, little books, calendars, posters, hang in the
corridors ... As means to take the results really seriously.
AND NOW THE BIG QUESTION: is that worth the extra costs of extra people, who
visualize the event? Some clients say yes, it is. It makes the difference
between a beautiful experience of self orgsnization and the welding of a
tool for the organization.
I myself would not propose to visualize every os meeting by external
visualizers. I would like very much to experiment with internal
visualization. We developed different ways of visualizing by participants.
Once we made 800 union people in vienna draw in little groups, 72 images,
with an amazing result.
I can imagine, that in every os group two or three people start to doodle,
to draw what they experience, on little cards. A bit like world cafe (I
propose to the world cafe people to use little cards as well). And then like
said before, the cards can be hung into the picture wall, group by geoup,
and shown in the evening as slide show. I would very much like to develop
this method and to make it available to the whole os community.
mit freundlichen Grüßen
best regards
Reinhard Kuchenmüller
VISUELLE PROTOKOLLE
tel. +39-0566 88929
www.visuelle-protokolle.de
________________________________________
Von: Catherine Pfaehler [c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Juni 2009 17:15
An: Reinhard Kuchenmueller
Cc: 'OSLIST'
Betreff: How can we foster sustainable outcomes?
Dear Reinhard
You have a very interesting point there. I have often wondered how the
sustainable implementation of visible results can be fostered "better" by
me, as in the post-OS-meeting, I often find my clients to focus on different
things than what I would have expected.
Then, again, on the other side, I am well aware that a most important side
result of an OS event is always teambuilding, communication and a stronger
commitment to their organisation by many participants. And if I succeed in
allowing the client to really be responsible for what happens with the
results, then I need to let go after having asked the evaluation questions
and some others like "Does anything need a vessel for coordination now?" and
"What has been developing since the OS event?".
Other opinions??
Heartfully, C.
Catherine Pfaehler Senn
lic.oec.HSG
Open Space Begleitung
St. Alban-Vorstadt 15
CH - 4052 Basel
+41-(0)76 - 488 15 46
c.pfaehler at open-space-begleitung.ch
www.open-space-begleitung.ch
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Reinhard Kuchenmueller [mailto:mail at visuelle-protokolle.de]
Gesendet: Montag, 22. Juni 2009 19:12
Betreff: AW: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?
my two cents:
a principle is defined as a law superordinated to every other law.
Condition: A certain effect can always be retraced to the same constellation
of facts. (wikipedia).
In this sense Harrison's principles are definitively no principles at all.
But he was really clever: two martinis and four mundane sentences - and the
whole world is repeating them like a mantra. Mantras, as the east knows
since thousands of years, don't have to have a meaning, the essence lies
behind them. It only gets painful, if you start to worship the mantras
instead of the essence.
Why is open space so effective? Certainly not because of the mantras. As I
see it, we have to dig deeper:
I could think of principles like:
People are basically interested - to engage themselves
- to take responsibility
- to interlink themselves
That happens as soon as one stops to treat people like obstinate mules.
And there exist conditions, which foster that, which support this so called
self organisation.
Certainly open space technology, as it is practised worldwide, is an
excellent condition for self organisation.
And your 'foundations' define it well.
Rather often a client spends money for an open space event, and for the
facilitator who proposes open space as a tool for the clients' purposes.
This aspect seems to be underestimated in the debate.
In my view the facilitator is responsible to link the proposed and choosen
form of the event, in our case open space, with the system and the purpose
of the client. What the client pays for is not the self organisation of his
people, that is only a beautiful side effect, and a bridge to engage people
in the affairs of the client - and more often simultaneously in their own
working conditions.
I cannot understand the disinterest of many open space facilitators towards
the outcome and its linkage with the system of the client.
That, in my eyes, is also the reason for the disinterest towards optimal
forms of recording the outcome - and as a visual facilitator I of course
propagate a visual form of protocol.
The discussions in the os list are mainly conducted with the back to the
clients, and that is a pity.
mit freundlichen Grüßen
best regards
Reinhard Kuchenmüller
VISUELLE PROTOKOLLE
tel. +39-0566 88929
www.visuelle-protokolle.de
________________________________________
Von: OSLIST [OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] im Auftrag von Artur Silva
[arturfsilva at YAHOO.COM]
Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Juni 2009 18:25
An: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Betreff: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?
Larry:
I am sorry but only today I had the time to answer you.
We certainly need foundations or principles to Open Space.
But I prefer the word "foundations" instead of "principles" because, due to
the man of the hat, this word is connected forever (only) with "the 4
principles". And I think that that there are other principles (foundations)
as important as, or even more important than, the 4 so called principles.
Indeed I think (sorry Harrison) that the expression "The 4 principles" was
badly chosen.
Because it they are "what always happens" they are not principles at all.
And because we think that we must state the principles in the beginning of
every session (I myself to that the majority o the times - but not always")
and I am more and more convinced that they are useless. You can state them
or nor, and the same things will occur. They are probably "one less thing to
do/state".
But there are other principles or foundations that are essential, in the
sense that if they are not present different things will happen.
In the discussion I opened in our wiki some years ago I proposed the
following:
3. I would suggest, as HO wrote in the old User’s Guide, that OST begins
with:
* A THEME that is compelling enough, but also general and open enough to
let people dream about and
* A GROUP OF COMMITED PEOPLE (reason for the presences to be almost
always voluntary)
* Enough DIVERSITY in the group
4. To those foundations one can add others that are generally accepted by
all practitioners:
* The CIRCLE (even if, in some cases, some argue that a "virtual circle"
will do)
* The Bulletin Board
* The Market Place
* The "law of two feet" (one of the most, if not the most important
feature, from where butterflies and bumblebees "germinate" and many
conflicts "evaporate")
* The "four principles" (as I have promised ;-)
(http://www.openspaceworld.org/cgi/netwiki.cgi?FoundationsofOST)
If I were to rewrite this today, I would surely suppress the last line. But
all the other "foundations" (including the law of two feet) are essential.
If you suppress one of them you will have a meeting; but not, IMHO, an OST
meeting. But we may not talk at all about the "4 principles" and everything
will happen as usual.
Best regrsds to all
Artur
--- On Thu, 5/28/09, Larry Peterson <larry at spiritedorg.com> wrote:
From: Larry Peterson <larry at spiritedorg.com>
Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009, 5:22 PM
Maybe a “foundation” is another word for how I often describe the
“principles”. I encourage people, when I open a space, to make some
assumptions about the gathering to assume what are stated as principles and
to act on that basis during the event. I think these only become “assumed”
after some evolution of consciousness and I don’t experience most folks in
organizations being there. I think it is important to articulate them, to
influence the “social construction” of the boundaries of the OST event along
with the most important part – the focus question or theme. Yep, it may be
a bit of ritualized behaviour but I think it helps increase the
possibilities what will emerge in the self-organizing process that will
happen anyway. Besides, I (we as facilitators) are one of the “selves” in
the self-organization.
Larry
Larry Peterson & Associates in Transformation
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
larry at spiritedorg.com<http://us.mc546.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=larry@spi
ritedorg.com> 416.653.4829
http://www.spiritedorg.com<http://www.spiritedorg.com/>
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Artur
Silva
Sent: May-27-09 5:54 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?
Harrison, Larry and all:
I am afraid that I continue to read only the messages from this list from
time to time...
Today, I read this answer from Harrison to a reply from Larry to an original
comment by Harrison. The 3 messages referred are listed below, and I ask you
to first read the parts of those messages that I have transformed in bold.
(...) Thanks for having done that ;-)
Now, I am happy that Harrison agrees that "the 4 principles and one law are
neither laws nor principles actually" and that there will come a day when
The Law and The Principles can be assigned to that wonderful status of “One
more thing not to do.”
But Larry commented, very wisely as usual, about the importance of some form
of “boundaries” or “container” for self-organization.
So, maybe it is the appropriate time to reintroduce a discussion that I have
tried to introduce many moons ago, about what are the foundations of OST.
I mean,
1) if the principles are not "principles" after all, but only what always
happens, and eventually even "one more thing not to do" (and I remember you
that I have done some OST experiments without reference to the Principles -
and all went well as usual), but
2) Some form of boundary or container is needed
where this boundary or container does comes from?
I have proposed to call that the "foundations" (not principles) of OST and
proposed some ideas (that are only preliminary ideas) I would like to read
(again) your opinions about.
You can found my (preliminary) proposals, of some time ago, here
http://www.openspaceworld.org/cgi/netwiki.cgi?FoundationsofOST
and here
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0401&L=oslist&P=R23925&I=-3&
X=6543D44B5D0A7C3BC4&Y=arturfsilva%40yahoo.com.
Looking forward to hear from you all
Warn regards from a warm night in Lisbon
Artur
------
--- On Wed, 5/27/09, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:
From: Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 7:23 AM
Right on Larry – and I found a very curious and embarrassing typo in my
small piece. I said, “They (the Principles and the Law) are descriptive as
opposed to descriptive.” I meant to say,”They are descriptive as opposed to
prescriptive.” Point is neither the Law nor the Principles tell you what to
do – they simply alert everybody to what will be taking place no matter
what. I think that is a useful function, but it really doesn’t change a
thing. In short – there will come a day when The Law and The Principles can
be assigned to that wonderful status of “One more thing not to do.”
Harrison
Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Drive
Potomac, Maryland 20854
Phone 301-365-2093
Skype hhowen
Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com<http://www.openspaceworld.com/>
Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org<http://www.openspaceworld.org/>
Personal website www.ho-image.com<http://www.ho-image.com/>
OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives
Visit:
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-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Larry
Peterson
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:44 AM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: Anti Laws of OST
For me, there is more sense in the “Principles and Law” than non-sense.
Stewart Kauffman explores the importance of some form of “boundaries” or
“container” for self-organization, particularly that of cells. He believes
(with strong scientific evidence) that real physical work only gets done
within some “boundaries” or it dissipates. Cells, he asserts, co-create
their “boundaries” with their environment through self-organizing
relationships in every moment. The boundaries are permeable, constructs,
open to interchange with their environment. (No such thing as a closed
system!)
Harrison, I believe you have articulated a set of socially constructed
permeable “boundaries” for enhancing human self-organization – including the
focus/theme, principles and law. These set a temporary set of “boundaries”
or a “container” both focused and open that change the perceived conditions
for self-organization at an event or meeting. Self-organization is
happening all the time, in every moment. Our mental maps (in practice) and
feelings shape what we do as we self-organize – what topics we propose and
who we connect to. Are they necessary for self-organization (Open Space) –
no, it is happening all the time as order emerges. Do they (or other
similar statements about the social framework for our self-organizing) help
people to self-organize in exciting and creative ways? I think so.
Larry
Larry Peterson & Associates in Transformation
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
larry at spiritedorg.com<http://us.mc546.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=larry@spi
ritedorg.com> 416.653.4829
http://www.spiritedorg.com<http://www.spiritedorg.com/>
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harrison
Owen
Sent: May-25-09 2:59 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST
Just to render the whole thing non-sensical, the 4 principles and one law
are neither laws nor principles actually. To be honest they are just my (and
others’) observations of what seemed to be happening in any case. In a word
they are descriptive as opposed to descriptive – You could say it is all a
joke. Rather like “technology” in the phrase Open Space Technology. The
joke, however turned out to be outrageously funny – because somehow or
another truth broke through. We are in serious trouble! Everybody knows that
what happens in Open Space simply can’t happen. Unfortunately it does – and
that makes a joke out of a whole mess of other stuff – like most of what we
think we know about meetings, the management of meetings, and management
itself. Double trouble!!
Harrison
Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Drive
Potomac, Maryland 20854
Phone 301-365-2093
Skype hhowen
Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com<http://www.openspaceworld.com/>
Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org<http://www.openspaceworld.org/>
Personal website www.ho-image.com<http://www.ho-image.com/>
OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives
Visit:
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