just wondering

Wed Oct 8 18:33:24 PDT 2008

There are two things I hear from you Harrison. That it's useful not to
confuse the map for the origin of the territory, and that old models die
when they need to die, giving birth to new models. A subtle third subtext is
the reminder that self-organizing systems seek uncertainty and
unpredictability, even unmappability.

Thank you for that.

Jack

Jack Ricchiuto
DesigningLife.com / 216.373.7475 (EST)

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On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:

>  Pat – It seems to me that some of the difficulty may a confusion of
> apples with oranges. To my mind "Capitalism" is one (among many)
> hypothetical, man-made models (understandings) of the Market Place. The
> Market Place is a living, organic, self-organizing system. Like all such
> systems it will seek to adapt to changed environmental circumstances by
> re-organizing at new and higher levels of complexity – or go bust (dissipate
> in the words of Ilya Prigogine) which usually gives rise to some new Market
> Place. Like all man made models (maps) Capitalism is useful to the extent
> that it helps us to understand what is going on. But it is always a model,
> it is always a map – and it certainly doesn't create the Market Place.
>
>
>
> One of the things I think we have learned from Open Space about consciously
> living in a self organizing world is that our maps can be very helpful – but
> we find ourselves in deep kimshi when we attempt to use the map to control
> the space. A self-organizing system is always more complex and subtle than
> our maps (pre-conceptions), and organizing a self organizing system is not
> only an oxymoron, it inevitably gets us in trouble, as I think we are
> experiencing at the moment. But having good maps is a great thing as long as
> we do not confuse the map with the territory.
>
>
>
> So what about the sustainability of the Market Place – which for me is
> another way of asking does the market place "want" to live? Does it support
> life? Put in these terms, I can only answer yes. And when a particular form
> of the market place comes to the end of the line (does not support life), it
> dies. Right along with everything else, including us.
>
>
>
> Harrison
>
>
>
>
>
> Harrison Owen
>
> 7808 River Falls Drive
>
> Potomac, Maryland   20854
>
> Phone 301-365-2093
>
> Skype hhowen
>
> Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
>
> Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
>
> Personal website www.ho-image.com
>
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>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Pat
> Black
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 02, 2008 9:15 AM
> *To:* OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: just wondering
>
>
>
> One of the principles used to describe the why and the how of OST is self
> organizing systems.  This is, in my opinion, the core of why OST works.
>  Everything in creation with the possible exception of hydrogen is self
> organizing.  Self organizing systems are self sustaining by definition or
> they disappear.  They use what is available to them to form relationships
> and are present and conscious in those possibilities as they change.  As
> their environment changes because of their activity self organizing systems
> find uses for waste which enables their sustainability.  It is different
> than capitalism, I think, because there is no consciousness to
> sustainability in capitalism.  I am not very knowledgeable about economics
> but it seems to me that capitalism does not address sustainability.  Its
> focus is on doing what is possible in them moment without regard for
> consequences. Seems like the best governments are able to moderate that
> "laissez-faire" notion with consciousness about sustainability.
>
> Pat Black
>
> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 8:42 AM, Martin Boroson <marty at becomingme.com>
> wrote:
>
> I am wondering …
>
>
>
> The philosophy of Open Space seems to promote a genuinely free market for
> ideas.  The underlying belief, as I understand it, is that allowing each
> person to follow his/her passion is the best way to discover the best ideas
> and solutions.  It's efficient, just like a market.  This sure sounds like
> the 'invisible hand' and laissez-faire capitalism to me.
>
>
>
> I have even sold Open Space to some corporate execs by pointing out that
> since they value the free market so dearly *outside* their company, they
> might want to try a free market *for ideas* inside their company.
>
>
>
> So I have often wondered if people on this list believe as passionately in
> the free market for the economy as they do in Open Space.   In the current
> economic crisis, as the world clamors for greater regulation – i.e. more
> rules and limits on the freedom of markets – I am wondering if any of you
> have any thoughts or insights to share.
>
>
>
> I imagine Harrison will remind me that Open Space runs on freedom *and*responsibility… yet the responsibility asked of participants in Open Space
> is pretty minimal – naming their passion and showing up for their sessions
> and respecting others' freedom to do the same.   It's well short of
> socialism.
>
>
>
> Marty
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Priory End House
>
> 2 North Street, Totnes, Devon TQ9 5NZ
>
> United Kingdom
>
> +44 784 344 5746 (mobile)
>
> www.martinboroson.info
>
>
>
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