<div dir="ltr">There are two things I hear from you Harrison. That it's useful not to confuse the map for the origin of the territory, and that old models die when they need to die, giving birth to new models. A subtle third subtext is the reminder that self-organizing systems seek uncertainty and unpredictability, even unmappability.<br>
<br>Thank you for that.<br><br>Jack<br><br clear="all">Jack Ricchiuto<br>DesigningLife.com / 216.373.7475 (EST)<br><br>Now available! "Instructions From The Cook: Recipes for New Conversations"<br>A powerful model for building community / Content previews at IntentionalModel.com<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Harrison Owen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net">hhowen@verizon.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<p><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Pat – It seems to me that some of the
difficulty may a confusion of apples with oranges. To my mind "Capitalism"
is one (among many) hypothetical, man-made models (understandings) of the
Market Place. The Market Place is a living, organic, self-organizing system. Like
all such systems it will seek to adapt to changed environmental circumstances
by re-organizing at new and higher levels of complexity – or go bust
(dissipate in the words of Ilya Prigogine) which usually gives rise to some new
Market Place. Like all man made models (maps) Capitalism is useful to the
extent that it helps us to understand what is going on. But it is always a
model, it is always a map – and it certainly doesn't create the
Market Place.</span></font></p>
<p><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">One of the things I think we have learned
from Open Space about consciously living in a self organizing world is that our
maps can be very helpful – but we find ourselves in deep kimshi when we
attempt to use the map to control the space. A self-organizing system is always
more complex and subtle than our maps (pre-conceptions), and organizing a self organizing
system is not only an oxymoron, it inevitably gets us in trouble, as I think we
are experiencing at the moment. But having good maps is a great thing as long
as we do not confuse the map with the territory.</span></font></p>
<p><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">So what about the sustainability of the
Market Place – which for me is another way of asking does the market
place "want" to live? Does it support life? Put in these terms, I
can only answer yes. And when a particular form of the market place comes to
the end of the line (does not support life), it dies. Right along with
everything else, including us.</span></font></p>
<p><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Harrison </span></font></p>
<p><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;"> </span></font></p>
<div><div class="Ih2E3d">
<p style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Harrison Owen</span></font></p>
<p style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">7808 River Falls Drive</span></font></p>
<p style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Potomac,
Maryland 20854</span></font></p>
<p style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Phone </span></font><font color="red" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">301-365-2093</span></font></p>
<p style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Skype hhowen</span></font></p>
<p style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Open Space Training</span></font><font color="red"><span style="color: red;"> <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.com/" target="_blank"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial;">www.openspaceworld.com</span></font></a>
</span></font></p>
<p style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Open Space Institute</span></font><font color="red"><span style="color: red;"> <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/" target="_blank"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial;">www.openspaceworld.org</span></font></a></span></font></p>
<p style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Personal website</span></font><font color="red"><span style="color: red;"> <a href="http://www.ho-image.com/" target="_blank"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial;">www.ho-image.com</span></font></a> </span></font></p>
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unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives Visit: </span></font><font color="red"><span style="color: red;"><a href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html" target="_blank"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial;">www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</span></font></a></span></font></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"><div class="Ih2E3d">-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> OSLIST
[mailto:<a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On
Behalf Of </span></b>Pat Black<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, October 02, 2008
9:15 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a><br>
</div><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: just wondering</span></font></p><div class="Ih2E3d">
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">One of the principles used to describe the why and the
how of OST is self organizing systems. This is, in my opinion, the core
of why OST works. Everything in creation with the possible exception of
hydrogen is self organizing. Self organizing systems are self sustaining
by definition or they disappear. They use what is available to them to
form relationships and are present and conscious in those possibilities as they
change. As their environment changes because of their activity self
organizing systems find uses for waste which enables their sustainability.
It is different than capitalism, I think, because there is no
consciousness to sustainability in capitalism. I am not very
knowledgeable about economics but it seems to me that capitalism does not
address sustainability. Its focus is on doing what is possible in them
moment without regard for consequences. Seems like the best governments are
able to moderate that "laissez-faire" notion with consciousness about
sustainability.</span></font></p>
<div>
<p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Pat
Black</span></font></p>
<div>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 8:42 AM, Martin Boroson <<a href="mailto:marty@becomingme.com" target="_blank">marty@becomingme.com</a>> wrote:</span></font></p>
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<div>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Book Antiqua" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I am wondering …</span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Book Antiqua" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Book Antiqua" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">The philosophy of Open
Space seems to promote a genuinely free market for ideas. The underlying
belief, as I understand it, is that allowing each person to follow his/her
passion is the best way to discover the best ideas and solutions. It's
efficient, just like a market. This sure sounds like the 'invisible hand'
and laissez-faire capitalism to me.</span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Book Antiqua" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Book Antiqua" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I have even sold Open Space
to some corporate execs by pointing out that since they value the free market
so dearly <i><span style="font-style: italic;">outside</span></i> their company,
they might want to try a free market <i><span style="font-style: italic;">for
ideas</span></i> inside their company. </span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Book Antiqua" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Book Antiqua" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">So I have often wondered if
people on this list believe as passionately in the free market for the economy
as they do in Open Space. In the current economic crisis, as the
world clamors for greater regulation – i.e. more rules and limits on the
freedom of markets – I am wondering if any of you have any thoughts or
insights to share.</span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Book Antiqua" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Book Antiqua" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I imagine Harrison will
remind me that Open Space runs on freedom <i><span style="font-style: italic;">and</span></i>
responsibility… yet the responsibility asked of participants in Open
Space is pretty minimal – naming their passion and showing up for their
sessions and respecting others' freedom to do the same. It's well
short of socialism.</span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Book Antiqua" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Book Antiqua" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Marty</span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Book Antiqua" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Book Antiqua" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="gray" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: gray;"> </span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-size: 6pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Priory End House</span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-size: 6pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">2 North Street, Totnes,
Devon TQ9 5NZ</span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-size: 6pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">United Kingdom</span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-size: 6pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">+44 784 344 5746 (mobile)</span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="gray" face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-size: 6pt; font-family: Arial; color: gray;"><a href="http://www.martinboroson.info" target="_blank">www.martinboroson.info</a></span></font></p>
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