just wondering

Thu Oct 2 13:33:41 PDT 2008

Pat - It seems to me that some of the difficulty may a confusion of apples
with oranges. To my mind "Capitalism" is one (among many) hypothetical,
man-made models (understandings) of the Market Place. The Market Place is a
living, organic, self-organizing system. Like all such systems it will seek
to adapt to changed environmental circumstances by re-organizing at new and
higher levels of complexity - or go bust (dissipate in the words of Ilya
Prigogine) which usually gives rise to some new Market Place. Like all man
made models (maps) Capitalism is useful to the extent that it helps us to
understand what is going on. But it is always a model, it is always a map -
and it certainly doesn't create the Market Place.

One of the things I think we have learned from Open Space about consciously
living in a self organizing world is that our maps can be very helpful - but
we find ourselves in deep kimshi when we attempt to use the map to control
the space. A self-organizing system is always more complex and subtle than
our maps (pre-conceptions), and organizing a self organizing system is not
only an oxymoron, it inevitably gets us in trouble, as I think we are
experiencing at the moment. But having good maps is a great thing as long as
we do not confuse the map with the territory.

So what about the sustainability of the Market Place - which for me is
another way of asking does the market place "want" to live? Does it support
life? Put in these terms, I can only answer yes. And when a particular form
of the market place comes to the end of the line (does not support life), it
dies. Right along with everything else, including us.

Harrison 

Harrison Owen

7808 River Falls Drive

Potomac, Maryland   20854

Phone 301-365-2093

Skype hhowen

Open Space Training  <http://www.openspaceworld.com/> www.openspaceworld.com

Open Space Institute  <http://www.openspaceworld.org/>
www.openspaceworld.org

Personal website  <http://www.ho-image.com/> www.ho-image.com 

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-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Pat Black
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 9:15 AM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: just wondering

One of the principles used to describe the why and the how of OST is self
organizing systems.  This is, in my opinion, the core of why OST works.
Everything in creation with the possible exception of hydrogen is self
organizing.  Self organizing systems are self sustaining by definition or
they disappear.  They use what is available to them to form relationships
and are present and conscious in those possibilities as they change.  As
their environment changes because of their activity self organizing systems
find uses for waste which enables their sustainability.  It is different
than capitalism, I think, because there is no consciousness to
sustainability in capitalism.  I am not very knowledgeable about economics
but it seems to me that capitalism does not address sustainability.  Its
focus is on doing what is possible in them moment without regard for
consequences. Seems like the best governments are able to moderate that
"laissez-faire" notion with consciousness about sustainability.

Pat Black

On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 8:42 AM, Martin Boroson <marty at becomingme.com> wrote:

I am wondering .

The philosophy of Open Space seems to promote a genuinely free market for
ideas.  The underlying belief, as I understand it, is that allowing each
person to follow his/her passion is the best way to discover the best ideas
and solutions.  It's efficient, just like a market.  This sure sounds like
the 'invisible hand' and laissez-faire capitalism to me.

I have even sold Open Space to some corporate execs by pointing out that
since they value the free market so dearly outside their company, they might
want to try a free market for ideas inside their company. 

So I have often wondered if people on this list believe as passionately in
the free market for the economy as they do in Open Space.   In the current
economic crisis, as the world clamors for greater regulation - i.e. more
rules and limits on the freedom of markets - I am wondering if any of you
have any thoughts or insights to share.

I imagine Harrison will remind me that Open Space runs on freedom and
responsibility. yet the responsibility asked of participants in Open Space
is pretty minimal - naming their passion and showing up for their sessions
and respecting others' freedom to do the same.   It's well short of
socialism.

Marty

Priory End House

2 North Street, Totnes, Devon TQ9 5NZ

United Kingdom

+44 784 344 5746 (mobile)

www.martinboroson.info

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