Stammtisch tonight in Montreal - Reminder
Esther Matte
ematte at EXCELLENCE.CA
Mon Oct 27 04:04:54 PDT 2008
ENGLISH FOLLOWS FRENCH
Bonjour à tous!
Même si j'habite maintenant New York, je retourne assez régulièrement au
Québec pour travailler et rencontrer des clients. Nous profiterons de ma
prochaine visite pour tenir notre prochain Cercle Forum ouvert de Montréal
le 27 octobre 2008, à partir de 17 h 30 au resto Le Cap Vert, au 1212 McGill
College (entre Cathcart et Ste-Catherine) - http://www.bistrolecapvert.com/
Si vous êtes dans la région, venez rencontrer d'autres personnes qui aiment
travailler en Forum ouvert! Le sujet du jour : le cercle de fermeture.
Comment? Combien de temps? Objets de parole? Commentaires marquants?
Au plaisir de vous voir lundi prochain!
Hi all!
Even though I currently live in New York City, I still go back to Quebec
from time to time for work and meeting with clients. We'll use my next visit
as an opportunity for a Montreal Stammtisch, on October 27, 2008 from 5:30
pm at the restaurant Le Cap Vert, au 1212 McGill College (entre Cathcart et
Ste-Catherine) - http://www.bistrolecapvert.com/ If you happen to be around
Montreal, come meet other people who like to work in Open Space! Our topic
of the day will be the closing circle: How? How long? Talking sticks?
Remarkable comments?
Hope to see some of you next Monday!
Esther Matte
Discover - Engage - Accomplish
New York: 212.755.0551
Montreal: 450.583.5849
www.excellence.ca
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>From Mon Oct 27 14:34:29 2008
Message-Id: <MON.27.OCT.2008.143429.0700.>
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:34:29 -0700
Reply-To: fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: funda oral <fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Fw: Re: Hunger
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--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Wael Al Saad <palestine.nw at googlemail.com> wrote:
From: Wael Al Saad <palestine.nw at googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: Hunger
To: fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 11:29 AM
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Dear Funda and all,
I am relative new on this list. I live in Germany/D=FCsseldorf. My origin a=
nd social back-ground is from the middle-east/Palestine. So I know examples=
where people develop own economic crises in order to fulfil "material stan=
dard expectations" by others (social fake). Other examples where people sen=
d their kids for bigging and other examples where militants becomes their s=
alary for living .. Searching for meanings and solutions, while having own =
feet in the middle of hot spots, or being sensitive Palestinian make me ver=
y sensitive global citizen seeing most of our issue from third dimention, r=
ecognizing the huge open space we have to think and act in synergy.=20
So I could not pass this thread without few reflections ..
"Wars, Violance,=A0Hunger and Diseases" should have been the main issues in=
our agenda
I like this film as it shows, that the agenda is much complex but it is get=
ting more and more clear for the most of us in our integral world. This com=
plexity can not be handled within the linear bureaucratic system we have, c=
ontrolled by a minority, who try to delegate their power on the majority.=
=A0 This is one reason for=20
"why we can not=A0 get better organized"
The other is that the humanity is emerging into new period, new experience,=
where we still need to learn how to deal with it. The time is not yet ripe=
for "new integral solution" as the tools and foundations are missing. But =
it is very promising to observe these foundations and new solution environm=
ent are under development in many spots around the glob.=20
Personal within the discussions about "Global Brain Application", I try to =
find new formulas of co-creation of common enviornement challenging the "be=
tter organisation" we lack.=20
Rob,
I like the title " 'behavioral change architect " and the concept behind :)=
=A0 ..I had to think simultaneously about "NATURAL CONSEQUENCES =3D NATURAL=
DISCIPLINE "=20
Over my discussion i plead for new initiatives with ZERO propaganda! Such k=
ind of solution approach requires much precise architect than the emotional=
personal motivated one.=20
Problem is: I do not know what kind of help this man needs and unfortunatel=
y I am not in any direct contact with the one hungry to ask / discuss (in t=
rue, respectful dialogue) how I can help.=A0=20
There is so much unused space to draw down the value-network/chain between =
you and the other end of hungry people. Once this is done, the problem you =
address is solved. Unless we have the environment to do it in common, our c=
ontribution to solve any problem will be weak.=20
All the best,
Waelhttp://gbasetup.ning.com/
2008/10/24 funda oral <fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com>
sorry i need to correct :
=A0
If we think of=A0our world, "Wars, Violance,=A0Hunger and Diseases" should =
have been the main issues in our agenda.
--- On Fri, 10/24/08, funda oral <fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com> wrote:
From: funda oral <fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hunger
To: "OSLIST" <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 8:19 PM
If we think of=A0our world, Wars, Violance and Diseases should have been th=
e main issues in our agenda. Because firstly these are the problems faced b=
y=A0majority of the population,
secondly the=A0communication technology makes it possible=A0for us to get=
=A0current information on time, thirdly every human being is against all of=
=A0them, and fourthly, we have globally enough resources to end all these p=
roblems in one month.
=A0
So why this doesn't happen? I guess=A0our agenda is full of=A0issues which =
are not that urgent although we all feel that somethings are wrong. We don'=
t know how to get organized efficiently to be able to end these problems. H=
opefully there are a lot of effort.
=A0
Personally, as many others in the list, i do a lot of work in these areas a=
nd i know how=A0one simple word and act can change the lives of many people=
.=20
=A0
My wonder is, knowing our=A0intelligence, sensitivity and potential to coll=
aborate,=A0why we can not=A0 get better organized to END these problems, no=
matter how much we are divided in different countries, religions, ages, se=
xes, identities, ethnics, professions, classes and so on.=20
=A0
Funda
=A0=A0=A0
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
--- On Fri, 10/24/08, Pat Black <patoitextiles at gmail.com> wrote:
From: Pat Black <patoitextiles at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hunger
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 2:38 PM
Funda and all who have been engaged in this question,
I have been in deep thought about your question Funda and it has directed m=
y thoughts to other questions.=A0 Sitting in the United States I have to wo=
nder if the militarization of my country, wars around the globe that direct=
ly involve our military, those that=A0 result from our covert military oper=
ations and those that happen for reasons unrelated to our agenda and hunger=
are not directly related to the United States governement and citizens wan=
ting to support an unsustainble hunger for more things.=A0 Could the curren=
t situation we find the world in be directly related to militarization inte=
nded to bolster and grow an economy to accommodate unsustainable and unquen=
chable appetites for more things.=A0 These are questions and they frame my =
thoughts on where to enter in.
Pat Black
On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 9:46 PM, Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com>=
wrote:
two bits that might or might not be useful in these wonderings...
first, we did a statewide "food security summit" in illinois in 2001.=A0 th=
ree days, full-on ost. proceedings are still posted here... http://www.mich=
aelherman.com/publications/foodsecurity.pdf.=A0 the event was sponsored by =
a large local foundation.=A0 invitees included policy folks, farmers, soup =
kitchen managers, chefs, food pantries, homeless shelters, food distributor=
s.=A0 and associated agency folk like our friend ted ernst, who sort of fol=
lowed me home from that event and discovered all of you here on the list.=
=A0 the theme of the summit, subsequent events, and ongoing work was/is ess=
entially "healthy food for all."
later on, ralph, we did a regional followup to address the findings of a re=
port done by a new jersey outfit, called redtomato.org.=A0=20
michael
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 8:47 AM, Ralph Copleman <rcopleman at comcast.net> wro=
te:
Hunger is a tragedy anywhere, anytime.
That said...
In my experience, trying to organize a group of process consultants to deal=
with a specific issue has not worked. =A0It seems to matter little how dee=
ply our hearts are stirred, we never get it going. =A0Conference calls and =
meetings get put together, and assignments get accepted, but things have al=
ways broken down on definitions, roles, deadlines. etc. =A0We do not follow=
through.
OS can be a HUGE and important contribution to any social change movement. =
=A0Can we use it to address the challenge of hunger. =A0OF COURSE we can. =
=A0It's a natural. =A0It's obvious. =A0We all know this. =A0But that's not =
the question. =A0Will we get something done around this? =A0That's really t=
he question.
My answer to Michael's question? =A0Yes, it's a silly idea.
Now, please, somebody. =A0Make me eat these words.
Ralph Copleman
*
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--=20
Michael Herman
Michael Herman Associates
http://www.michaelherman.com
http://www.ronanparktrail.com
http://www.chicagoconservationcorps.org
http://www.openspaceworld.org
312-280-7838 (mobile)
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 10/27/08, Wael Al Saad=
<I><palestine.nw at googlemail.com></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Wael Al Saad <palestine.nw at googlemail.com>=
;<BR>Subject: Re: Hunger<BR>To: fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com<BR>Date: Monday, Oc=
tober 27, 2008, 11:29 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv1029350519>
<STYLE>
#yiv1029350519 <!--
=20
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<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB><BR>Dear Funda and all,<I><BR><BR><=
/I>I am relative new on this list<I>. </I>I live in Germany/D=FCsseldorf. M=
y origin and social back-ground is from the middle-east/Palestine. So I kno=
w examples where people develop own economic crises in order to fulfil "mat=
erial standard expectations" by others (social fake). Other examples where =
people send their kids for bigging and other examples where militants becom=
es their salary for living .. Searching for meanings and solutions, while h=
aving own feet in the middle of hot spots, or being sensitive Palestinian m=
ake me very sensitive global citizen seeing most of our issue from third di=
mention, recognizing the huge open space we have to think and act in synerg=
y. <BR><BR>So I could not pass this thread without few reflections ..<BR><I=
><BR>"<SPAN style=3D"COLOR: rgb(192,0,0)">Wars, Violance, Hunger and D=
iseases"</SPAN> should have been the main issues in our agenda</I><BR><BR>I
like </SPAN><A href=3D"http://www.global-mindshift.org/memes/globalmindcha=
nge.swf" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB>this film</SPAN>=
</A><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB> as it shows, that the agenda is much complex but it=
is getting more and more clear for the most of us in our integral world. T=
his complexity can not be handled within the linear bureaucratic system we =
have, controlled by a minority, who try to delegate their power on the majo=
rity. This is one reason for <BR><I>"why we can not get better =
organized</I>"<BR>The other is that the humanity is emerging into new perio=
d, new experience, where we still need to learn how to deal with it. The ti=
me is not yet ripe for "new integral solution" as the tools and foundations=
are missing. But it is very promising to observe these foundations and new=
solution environment are under development in many spots around the glob. =
<BR><BR>Personal within the discussions about "Global Brain Application", I
try to find new formulas of co-creation of common enviornement challenging=
the "better organisation" we lack. <BR><BR><BR>Rob,<BR><BR>I like the titl=
e " </SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>'behavioral change architect " and the concep=
t behind :) ..I had to think simultaneously about "</SPAN><A href=3D"=
http://www.helpyourselftherapy.com/topics/discip.html" target=3D_blank rel=
=3Dnofollow><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB>NATURAL CONSEQUENCES =3D NATURAL DISCIPLINE<=
/SPAN></A><SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>" <BR><BR>Over my discussion i <=
/SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">ple=
ad </SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>for new initiatives with ZERO propaganda! Such=
kind of solution approach requires much precise architect than the emotion=
al personal motivated one. <BR><BR><I>Problem is: I do not know what kind o=
f help this man needs and unfortunately I am not in any direct contact with=
the one hungry to ask / discuss (in true, respectful dialogue) how I can h=
elp.
</I></SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB><BR></SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><BR>There is s=
o much unused space to draw down the value-network/chain between you and th=
e other end of hungry people. Once this is done, the problem you address is=
solved. Unless we have the environment to do it in common, our contributio=
n to solve any problem will be weak. <BR><BR>All the best,<BR><BR>Wael</SPA=
N><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB></SPAN></DIV><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><A href=3D"http://gbas=
etup.ning.com/" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://gbasetup.ning.com/</A=
><BR><BR></SPAN>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>2008/10/24 funda oral <SPAN dir=3Dltr><<A href=
=3D"mailto:fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>fundaora=
l2003 at yahoo.com</A>></SPAN><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt=
0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch:=
inherit" vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV>sorry i need to correct :</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If we think of our world, "<FONT color=3D#c00000>Wars, Violance,&=
nbsp;Hunger and Diseases"</FONT> should have been the main issues in our ag=
enda.<BR><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 10/24/08, funda oral <I><<A href=3D"mailto:f=
undaoral2003 at yahoo.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>fundaoral2003 at yahoo.=
com</A>></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid">From: funda oral <<A href=3D"mailto:fundaoral2003@=
yahoo.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com</A>><B=
R>Subject: Re: Hunger<BR>To: "OSLIST" <<A href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV=
.BOISESTATE.EDU" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.=
EDU</A>><BR>Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 8:19 PM
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DWj3C7c><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV>If we think of our world, Wars, Violance and Diseases should have=
been the main issues in our agenda. Because firstly these are the problems=
faced by majority of the population,</DIV>
<DIV>secondly the communication technology makes it possible for =
us to get current information on time, thirdly every human being is ag=
ainst all of them, and fourthly, we have globally enough resources to =
end all these problems in one month.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So why this doesn't happen? I guess our agenda is full of is=
sues which are not that urgent although we all feel that somethings are wro=
ng. We don't know how to get organized efficiently to be able to end these =
problems. Hopefully there are a lot of effort.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Personally, as many others in the list, i do a lot of work in these ar=
eas and i know how one simple word and act can change the lives of man=
y people. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My wonder is, knowing our intelligence, sensitivity and potential=
to collaborate, why we can not get better organized to END thes=
e problems, no matter how much we are divided in different countries, relig=
ions, ages, sexes, identities, ethnics, professions, classes and so on. </D=
IV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Funda</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> &nbs=
p; <BR><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 10/24/08, Pat Black <I><<A href=3D"=
mailto:patoitextiles at gmail.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>patoitextile=
s at gmail.com</A>></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Pat Black <<A href=3D"mailto:patoitextiles at g=
mail.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>patoitextiles at gmail.com</A>><BR=
>Subject: Re: Hunger<BR>To: <A href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.ED=
U" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A><BR>Dat=
e: Friday, October 24, 2008, 2:38 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>Funda and all who have been engaged in this question,</DIV>
<DIV>I have been in deep thought about your question Funda and it has direc=
ted my thoughts to other questions. Sitting in the United States I ha=
ve to wonder if the militarization of my country, wars around the globe tha=
t directly involve our military, those that result from our covert mi=
litary operations and those that happen for reasons unrelated to our agenda=
and hunger are not directly related to the United States governement and c=
itizens wanting to support an unsustainble hunger for more things. Co=
uld the current situation we find the world in be directly related to milit=
arization intended to bolster and grow an economy to accommodate unsustaina=
ble and unquenchable appetites for more things. These are questions a=
nd they frame my thoughts on where to enter in.</DIV>
<DIV>Pat Black<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 9:46 PM, Michael Herman <S=
PAN dir=3Dltr><<A href=3D"mailto:michael at michaelherman.com" target=3D_bl=
ank rel=3Dnofollow>michael at michaelherman.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px=
0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">two bits that might or=
might not be useful in these wonderings...<BR><BR>first, we did a statewid=
e "food security summit" in illinois in 2001. three days, full-on ost=
. proceedings are still posted here... <A href=3D"http://www.michaelherman.=
com/publications/foodsecurity.pdf" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://ww=
w.michaelherman.com/publications/foodsecurity.pdf</A>. the event was =
sponsored by a large local foundation. invitees included policy folks=
, farmers, soup kitchen managers, chefs, food pantries, homeless shelters, =
food distributors. and associated agency folk like our friend ted ern=
st, who sort of followed me home from that event and discovered all of you =
here on the list. the theme of the summit, subsequent events, and ong=
oing work was/is essentially "healthy food for all."<BR><BR>later on, ralph=
,
we did a regional followup to address the findings of a report done by a n=
ew jersey outfit, called <A href=3D"http://redtomato.org/" target=3D_blank =
rel=3Dnofollow>redtomato.org</A>. <BR><BR>michael<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>=
<BR>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 8:47 AM, Ralph Copleman <S=
PAN dir=3Dltr><<A href=3D"mailto:rcopleman at comcast.net" target=3D_blank =
rel=3Dnofollow>rcopleman at comcast.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt=
0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Hunger is a tragedy an=
ywhere, anytime.<BR><BR>That said...<BR><BR>In my experience, trying to org=
anize a group of process consultants to deal with a specific issue has not =
worked. It seems to matter little how deeply our hearts are stirred, =
we never get it going. Conference calls and meetings get put together=
, and assignments get accepted, but things have always broken down on defin=
itions, roles, deadlines. etc. We do not follow through.<BR><BR>OS ca=
n be a HUGE and important contribution to any social change movement.  =
;Can we use it to address the challenge of hunger. OF COURSE we can. =
It's a natural. It's obvious. We all know this. But=
that's not the question. Will we get something done around this? &nb=
sp;That's really the question.<BR><BR>My answer to Michael's question?
Yes, it's a silly idea.<BR><BR>Now, please, somebody. Make me =
eat these words.<BR><BR>Ralph Copleman<BR><BR>*<BR>*<BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D<BR><A href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target=3D_blank=
rel=3Dnofollow>OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A><BR>---------------------=
---------<BR>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,<BR>view the ar=
chives of <A href=3D"mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu" target=3D_blank=
rel=3Dnofollow>oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu</A>:<BR><A href=3D"http://li=
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://www.michaelherman.com</A><BR><A href=3D"http://www.ronanparktrail.com/" =
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCK=
QUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DWj3C7c><BR>* * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D <A href=3D"mailto:OS=
LIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>OSLIST at LISTSER=
V.BOISESTATE.EDU</A> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscri=
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tp://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</A> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><=
BR clear=3Dall><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A
*
*
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--0-610878398-1225143269=:14391--
>From Mon Oct 27 15:02:01 2008
Message-Id: <MON.27.OCT.2008.150201.0700.>
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 15:02:01 -0700
Reply-To: fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: funda oral <fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hunger
X-To: Wael Al Saad <palestine.nw at googlemail.com>
In-Reply-To: <7a6e00a10810270229r40c1b81dlfdd4eb3fb117576d at mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-462028728-1225144921=:33979"
--0-462028728-1225144921=:33979
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wael,
=A0
It's so good to read that you're hopeful about "a better organisation to so=
lve urgent issues,
to cover real urgent=A0needs"
=A0
I think OST is=A0a powerful tool on the way to develop better organizations=
=A0as it is not=A0a tool for discussions only, it=A0also encourages=A0actio=
n, co-creation and re-organization by its nature.
=A0
Pat,
=A0
I agree with you. I don't want to put the burden of everything on US, but i=
can not deny that US policies=A0affect=A0all the world.
=A0
And everybody,
=A0
i am afraid that=A0we are trading=A0the hunger, the=A0greed, the need for s=
ecurity of those who are in power=A0with the food, the security, the smile=
=A0of our children? and i am even more afraid since=A0this looks normal.
=A0
Regards,
=A0
Funda=A0=A0=A0
=A0=A0
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Wael Al Saad <palestine.nw at googlemail.com> wrote:
From: Wael Al Saad <palestine.nw at googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: Hunger
To: fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 11:29 AM
#yiv611700297 <!--
=20
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Dear Funda and all,
I am relative new on this list. I live in Germany/D=FCsseldorf. My origin a=
nd social back-ground is from the middle-east/Palestine. So I know examples=
where people develop own economic crises in order to fulfil "material stan=
dard expectations" by others (social fake). Other examples where people sen=
d their kids for bigging and other examples where militants becomes their s=
alary for living .. Searching for meanings and solutions, while having own =
feet in the middle of hot spots, or being sensitive Palestinian make me ver=
y sensitive global citizen seeing most of our issue from third dimention, r=
ecognizing the huge open space we have to think and act in synergy.=20
So I could not pass this thread without few reflections ..
"Wars, Violance,=A0Hunger and Diseases" should have been the main issues in=
our agenda
I like this film as it shows, that the agenda is much complex but it is get=
ting more and more clear for the most of us in our integral world. This com=
plexity can not be handled within the linear bureaucratic system we have, c=
ontrolled by a minority, who try to delegate their power on the majority.=
=A0 This is one reason for=20
"why we can not=A0 get better organized"
The other is that the humanity is emerging into new period, new experience,=
where we still need to learn how to deal with it. The time is not yet ripe=
for "new integral solution" as the tools and foundations are missing. But =
it is very promising to observe these foundations and new solution environm=
ent are under development in many spots around the glob.=20
Personal within the discussions about "Global Brain Application", I try to =
find new formulas of co-creation of common enviornement challenging the "be=
tter organisation" we lack.=20
Rob,
I like the title " 'behavioral change architect " and the concept behind :)=
=A0 ..I had to think simultaneously about "NATURAL CONSEQUENCES =3D NATURAL=
DISCIPLINE "=20
Over my discussion i plead for new initiatives with ZERO propaganda! Such k=
ind of solution approach requires much precise architect than the emotional=
personal motivated one.=20
Problem is: I do not know what kind of help this man needs and unfortunatel=
y I am not in any direct contact with the one hungry to ask / discuss (in t=
rue, respectful dialogue) how I can help.=A0=20
There is so much unused space to draw down the value-network/chain between =
you and the other end of hungry people. Once this is done, the problem you =
address is solved. Unless we have the environment to do it in common, our c=
ontribution to solve any problem will be weak.=20
All the best,
Waelhttp://gbasetup.ning.com/
2008/10/24 funda oral <fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com>
sorry i need to correct :
=A0
If we think of=A0our world, "Wars, Violance,=A0Hunger and Diseases" should =
have been the main issues in our agenda.
--- On Fri, 10/24/08, funda oral <fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com> wrote:
From: funda oral <fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hunger
To: "OSLIST" <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 8:19 PM
If we think of=A0our world, Wars, Violance and Diseases should have been th=
e main issues in our agenda. Because firstly these are the problems faced b=
y=A0majority of the population,
secondly the=A0communication technology makes it possible=A0for us to get=
=A0current information on time, thirdly every human being is against all of=
=A0them, and fourthly, we have globally enough resources to end all these p=
roblems in one month.
=A0
So why this doesn't happen? I guess=A0our agenda is full of=A0issues which =
are not that urgent although we all feel that somethings are wrong. We don'=
t know how to get organized efficiently to be able to end these problems. H=
opefully there are a lot of effort.
=A0
Personally, as many others in the list, i do a lot of work in these areas a=
nd i know how=A0one simple word and act can change the lives of many people=
.=20
=A0
My wonder is, knowing our=A0intelligence, sensitivity and potential to coll=
aborate,=A0why we can not=A0 get better organized to END these problems, no=
matter how much we are divided in different countries, religions, ages, se=
xes, identities, ethnics, professions, classes and so on.=20
=A0
Funda
=A0=A0=A0
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
--- On Fri, 10/24/08, Pat Black <patoitextiles at gmail.com> wrote:
From: Pat Black <patoitextiles at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hunger
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 2:38 PM
Funda and all who have been engaged in this question,
I have been in deep thought about your question Funda and it has directed m=
y thoughts to other questions.=A0 Sitting in the United States I have to wo=
nder if the militarization of my country, wars around the globe that direct=
ly involve our military, those that=A0 result from our covert military oper=
ations and those that happen for reasons unrelated to our agenda and hunger=
are not directly related to the United States governement and citizens wan=
ting to support an unsustainble hunger for more things.=A0 Could the curren=
t situation we find the world in be directly related to militarization inte=
nded to bolster and grow an economy to accommodate unsustainable and unquen=
chable appetites for more things.=A0 These are questions and they frame my =
thoughts on where to enter in.
Pat Black
On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 9:46 PM, Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com>=
wrote:
two bits that might or might not be useful in these wonderings...
first, we did a statewide "food security summit" in illinois in 2001.=A0 th=
ree days, full-on ost. proceedings are still posted here... http://www.mich=
aelherman.com/publications/foodsecurity.pdf.=A0 the event was sponsored by =
a large local foundation.=A0 invitees included policy folks, farmers, soup =
kitchen managers, chefs, food pantries, homeless shelters, food distributor=
s.=A0 and associated agency folk like our friend ted ernst, who sort of fol=
lowed me home from that event and discovered all of you here on the list.=
=A0 the theme of the summit, subsequent events, and ongoing work was/is ess=
entially "healthy food for all."
later on, ralph, we did a regional followup to address the findings of a re=
port done by a new jersey outfit, called redtomato.org.=A0=20
michael
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 8:47 AM, Ralph Copleman <rcopleman at comcast.net> wro=
te:
Hunger is a tragedy anywhere, anytime.
That said...
In my experience, trying to organize a group of process consultants to deal=
with a specific issue has not worked. =A0It seems to matter little how dee=
ply our hearts are stirred, we never get it going. =A0Conference calls and =
meetings get put together, and assignments get accepted, but things have al=
ways broken down on definitions, roles, deadlines. etc. =A0We do not follow=
through.
OS can be a HUGE and important contribution to any social change movement. =
=A0Can we use it to address the challenge of hunger. =A0OF COURSE we can. =
=A0It's a natural. =A0It's obvious. =A0We all know this. =A0But that's not =
the question. =A0Will we get something done around this? =A0That's really t=
he question.
My answer to Michael's question? =A0Yes, it's a silly idea.
Now, please, somebody. =A0Make me eat these words.
Ralph Copleman
*
*
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
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--=20
Michael Herman
Michael Herman Associates
http://www.michaelherman.com
http://www.ronanparktrail.com
http://www.chicagoconservationcorps.org
http://www.openspaceworld.org
312-280-7838 (mobile)
* * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV><BR>Wael,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It's so good to read that you're hopeful about "a better organisation =
to solve urgent issues,</DIV>
<DIV>to cover real urgent needs"</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think OST is a powerful tool on the way to develop better organ=
izations as it is not a tool for discussions only, it also e=
ncourages action, co-creation and re-organization by its nature.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Pat,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I agree with you. I don't want to put the burden of everything on US, =
but i can not deny that US policies affect all the world.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And everybody,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>i am afraid that we are trading the hunger, the greed, =
the need for security of those who are in power with the food, the sec=
urity, the smile of our children? and i am even more afraid since =
;this looks normal.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Funda </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 10/27/08, Wael Al Saad <I><palestine.nw at googlema=
il.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Wael Al Saad <palestine.nw at googlemail.com>=
;<BR>Subject: Re: Hunger<BR>To: fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com<BR>Date: Monday, Oc=
tober 27, 2008, 11:29 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv611700297>
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<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB><BR>Dear Funda and all,<I><BR><BR><=
/I>I am relative new on this list<I>. </I>I live in Germany/D=FCsseldorf. M=
y origin and social back-ground is from the middle-east/Palestine. So I kno=
w examples where people develop own economic crises in order to fulfil "mat=
erial standard expectations" by others (social fake). Other examples where =
people send their kids for bigging and other examples where militants becom=
es their salary for living .. Searching for meanings and solutions, while h=
aving own feet in the middle of hot spots, or being sensitive Palestinian m=
ake me very sensitive global citizen seeing most of our issue from third di=
mention, recognizing the huge open space we have to think and act in synerg=
y. <BR><BR>So I could not pass this thread without few reflections ..<BR><I=
><BR>"<SPAN style=3D"COLOR: rgb(192,0,0)">Wars, Violance, Hunger and D=
iseases"</SPAN> should have been the main issues in our agenda</I><BR><BR>I
like </SPAN><A href=3D"http://www.global-mindshift.org/memes/globalmindcha=
nge.swf" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB>this film</SPAN>=
</A><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB> as it shows, that the agenda is much complex but it=
is getting more and more clear for the most of us in our integral world. T=
his complexity can not be handled within the linear bureaucratic system we =
have, controlled by a minority, who try to delegate their power on the majo=
rity. This is one reason for <BR><I>"why we can not get better =
organized</I>"<BR>The other is that the humanity is emerging into new perio=
d, new experience, where we still need to learn how to deal with it. The ti=
me is not yet ripe for "new integral solution" as the tools and foundations=
are missing. But it is very promising to observe these foundations and new=
solution environment are under development in many spots around the glob. =
<BR><BR>Personal within the discussions about "Global Brain Application", I
try to find new formulas of co-creation of common enviornement challenging=
the "better organisation" we lack. <BR><BR><BR>Rob,<BR><BR>I like the titl=
e " </SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>'behavioral change architect " and the concep=
t behind :) ..I had to think simultaneously about "</SPAN><A href=3D"=
http://www.helpyourselftherapy.com/topics/discip.html" target=3D_blank rel=
=3Dnofollow><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB>NATURAL CONSEQUENCES =3D NATURAL DISCIPLINE<=
/SPAN></A><SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>" <BR><BR>Over my discussion i <=
/SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">ple=
ad </SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>for new initiatives with ZERO propaganda! Such=
kind of solution approach requires much precise architect than the emotion=
al personal motivated one. <BR><BR><I>Problem is: I do not know what kind o=
f help this man needs and unfortunately I am not in any direct contact with=
the one hungry to ask / discuss (in true, respectful dialogue) how I can h=
elp.
</I></SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB><BR></SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><BR>There is s=
o much unused space to draw down the value-network/chain between you and th=
e other end of hungry people. Once this is done, the problem you address is=
solved. Unless we have the environment to do it in common, our contributio=
n to solve any problem will be weak. <BR><BR>All the best,<BR><BR>Wael</SPA=
N><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB></SPAN></DIV><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><A href=3D"http://gbas=
etup.ning.com/" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://gbasetup.ning.com/</A=
><BR><BR></SPAN>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>2008/10/24 funda oral <SPAN dir=3Dltr><<A href=
=3D"mailto:fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>fundaora=
l2003 at yahoo.com</A>></SPAN><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt=
0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch:=
inherit" vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV>sorry i need to correct :</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If we think of our world, "<FONT color=3D#c00000>Wars, Violance,&=
nbsp;Hunger and Diseases"</FONT> should have been the main issues in our ag=
enda.<BR><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 10/24/08, funda oral <I><<A href=3D"mailto:f=
undaoral2003 at yahoo.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>fundaoral2003 at yahoo.=
com</A>></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid">From: funda oral <<A href=3D"mailto:fundaoral2003@=
yahoo.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>fundaoral2003 at yahoo.com</A>><B=
R>Subject: Re: Hunger<BR>To: "OSLIST" <<A href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV=
.BOISESTATE.EDU" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.=
EDU</A>><BR>Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 8:19 PM
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DWj3C7c><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV>If we think of our world, Wars, Violance and Diseases should have=
been the main issues in our agenda. Because firstly these are the problems=
faced by majority of the population,</DIV>
<DIV>secondly the communication technology makes it possible for =
us to get current information on time, thirdly every human being is ag=
ainst all of them, and fourthly, we have globally enough resources to =
end all these problems in one month.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So why this doesn't happen? I guess our agenda is full of is=
sues which are not that urgent although we all feel that somethings are wro=
ng. We don't know how to get organized efficiently to be able to end these =
problems. Hopefully there are a lot of effort.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Personally, as many others in the list, i do a lot of work in these ar=
eas and i know how one simple word and act can change the lives of man=
y people. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My wonder is, knowing our intelligence, sensitivity and potential=
to collaborate, why we can not get better organized to END thes=
e problems, no matter how much we are divided in different countries, relig=
ions, ages, sexes, identities, ethnics, professions, classes and so on. </D=
IV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Funda</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> &nbs=
p; <BR><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 10/24/08, Pat Black <I><<A href=3D"=
mailto:patoitextiles at gmail.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>patoitextile=
s at gmail.com</A>></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Pat Black <<A href=3D"mailto:patoitextiles at g=
mail.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>patoitextiles at gmail.com</A>><BR=
>Subject: Re: Hunger<BR>To: <A href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.ED=
U" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A><BR>Dat=
e: Friday, October 24, 2008, 2:38 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>Funda and all who have been engaged in this question,</DIV>
<DIV>I have been in deep thought about your question Funda and it has direc=
ted my thoughts to other questions. Sitting in the United States I ha=
ve to wonder if the militarization of my country, wars around the globe tha=
t directly involve our military, those that result from our covert mi=
litary operations and those that happen for reasons unrelated to our agenda=
and hunger are not directly related to the United States governement and c=
itizens wanting to support an unsustainble hunger for more things. Co=
uld the current situation we find the world in be directly related to milit=
arization intended to bolster and grow an economy to accommodate unsustaina=
ble and unquenchable appetites for more things. These are questions a=
nd they frame my thoughts on where to enter in.</DIV>
<DIV>Pat Black<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 9:46 PM, Michael Herman <S=
PAN dir=3Dltr><<A href=3D"mailto:michael at michaelherman.com" target=3D_bl=
ank rel=3Dnofollow>michael at michaelherman.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px=
0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">two bits that might or=
might not be useful in these wonderings...<BR><BR>first, we did a statewid=
e "food security summit" in illinois in 2001. three days, full-on ost=
. proceedings are still posted here... <A href=3D"http://www.michaelherman.=
com/publications/foodsecurity.pdf" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://ww=
w.michaelherman.com/publications/foodsecurity.pdf</A>. the event was =
sponsored by a large local foundation. invitees included policy folks=
, farmers, soup kitchen managers, chefs, food pantries, homeless shelters, =
food distributors. and associated agency folk like our friend ted ern=
st, who sort of followed me home from that event and discovered all of you =
here on the list. the theme of the summit, subsequent events, and ong=
oing work was/is essentially "healthy food for all."<BR><BR>later on, ralph=
,
we did a regional followup to address the findings of a report done by a n=
ew jersey outfit, called <A href=3D"http://redtomato.org/" target=3D_blank =
rel=3Dnofollow>redtomato.org</A>. <BR><BR>michael<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>=
<BR>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 8:47 AM, Ralph Copleman <S=
PAN dir=3Dltr><<A href=3D"mailto:rcopleman at comcast.net" target=3D_blank =
rel=3Dnofollow>rcopleman at comcast.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt=
0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Hunger is a tragedy an=
ywhere, anytime.<BR><BR>That said...<BR><BR>In my experience, trying to org=
anize a group of process consultants to deal with a specific issue has not =
worked. It seems to matter little how deeply our hearts are stirred, =
we never get it going. Conference calls and meetings get put together=
, and assignments get accepted, but things have always broken down on defin=
itions, roles, deadlines. etc. We do not follow through.<BR><BR>OS ca=
n be a HUGE and important contribution to any social change movement.  =
;Can we use it to address the challenge of hunger. OF COURSE we can. =
It's a natural. It's obvious. We all know this. But=
that's not the question. Will we get something done around this? &nb=
sp;That's really the question.<BR><BR>My answer to Michael's question?
Yes, it's a silly idea.<BR><BR>Now, please, somebody. Make me =
eat these words.<BR><BR>Ralph Copleman<BR><BR>*<BR>*<BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D<BR><A href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target=3D_blank=
rel=3Dnofollow>OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A><BR>---------------------=
---------<BR>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,<BR>view the ar=
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