Going underground as facilitator - Follow-up
douglas germann
76066.515 at compuserve.com
Thu Jul 17 18:22:55 PDT 2008
Marc--
That is a wonderful metaphor. I intend to use it...often!
:- Doug.
On Fri, 2008-07-18 at 01:27 +0200, Marc Steinlin (I-P-K) wrote:
> Earlier on I had taken from this list that your (and my!) favourite
> question to an OS facilitator is: "What do we actually pay you for?" -
> I find it hilarious and I always share it with people when talking
> about OS, it's always a scream!
>
>
> Usually I then refer to my memories living in West Africa. We mostly
> had a night watchman in our garden (in many ways the reason was also
> to give another person a job). They were always there, sitting under a
> tree, brewing tea and they were great to have a chat with - they knew
> everything that happened in the neighbourhood!
> But they never actually did something. And that was the point: you
> have a night watchmen BECAUSE YOU WANT THEM NOT HAVING ANYTHING TO DO
> and you have the great desire that they never ever will need to do
> anything - that was precisely the reason why you have (and paid!)
> them! They are "holding the night" - and your space to sleep free from
> worries. And you assume that their mere presence creates this safe
> space.
>
>
> That's always how I understood - and explained - my role and the space
> that I hold as a facilitator. People (who have experienced African
> night watchmen) always understood...
>
>
> Thanks again!
> -marc
>
>
>
>
> IngeniousPeoplesKnowledge
> Marc Steinlin
> marc.steinlin at i-p-k.ch
> Skype: marcsteinlin
>
>
> PO Box 27494
> Rhine Road
> Sea Point
> 8050 Cape Town
> Republic of South Africa
> Mobile: +27 (76) 222 81 12
>
>
> Zweierstrasse 50
> CH-8004 Zürich
> Switzerland
> Mobile: +41 (78) 850 42 32
>
>
> http://www.i-p-k.ch
>
> P Help save paper - do you really need to print this email ?
>
>
> ‘Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
> change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever
> has.’ Margaret Mead
>
> On 17 Jul 2008, at 00:35 , Pat Black wrote:
>
> > I have spent the last couple of days thinking about your question
> > "What does it mean to hold space?" and can the group hold it and any
> > group? My thoughts on what I do when I hold the space is to just be
> > present with what ever goes on. I don't judge or manage it in any
> > way. I am a witness to it and that is what holding space is for me.
> > I listen and I see, I feel it and experience it. But I don't judge
> > it and I receive whatever is happening with the same comfort and
> > acceptance. I totally trust Open Space and the power it has to
> > incubate vision so I am also the poster child for that. When things
> > get rugged and they do at times in most groups that have come to
> > wrestle with conflict and passionate opinions I am often asked to
> > manage the conflict in some way. I stand as the one person in the
> > gathering of people who always has their eye on Open Space and my
> > trust in it never waivers. I am the person that can be relied on to
> > say this process called Open Space will provide whatever is needed
> > for the issue to get sorted out and at the depth the group has the
> > capacity for at that moment. I have experienced as the facilitator
> > and as a participant at Open Space events that the facilitator in
> > gives permission for people to stay engaged in whatever has got them
> > rattled if they feel passionate about it even when they feel scared
> > or threatened in some way. I do feel that people often are able to
> > get on the other side of an issue when they stick with it through
> > the wretched hard place. So to answer the question about is the
> > facilitator necessary with any or all groups I would say no. The
> > facilitator is not required with any group ever but I believe that
> > there should be one present at every event. I just believe that
> > sometimes when you are in the thick of it with a group and feel so
> > passionate about an issue that it feels like breathe and the
> > engagement with others feels like they are stealing your breathe
> > that it is helpful to have someone there that is never inside that
> > soup. Someone who by their presence reminds us that the soup we
> > find ourselves in is just one soup and not the entire universe.
> > Someone who by their presence reminds us that if we travel a little
> > further we will find ourselves in a new space that is not just more
> > comfortable but better, more open. That can happen with or without
> > a facilitator but when it is hot sometimes we disengage before we
> > get there if there isn't a facilitator.
> > Thanks for the thoughtful questions.
> > Pat Black
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Marc Steinlin (I-P-K)
> > <marc.steinlin at i-p-k.ch> wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> >
> > I had asked you for your feedback and input almost 2 months
> > ago on "going underground" as a facilitator and I have
> > received much valuable input from many among you.
> >
> >
> > In the meantime, the event took place and it was great. We
> > were about 90 persons from the KM4Dev (Knowledge Management
> > for Development) community gathered for our annual meeting
> > in Lisbon. After having experimented with OS last year
> > already, we this time decided to run the whole meeting over
> > 2 days entirely in OS. We had a lot of enthusiasm and
> > committed people, interesting discussions, countless
> > sessions. Reporting was done online on a wiki
> > (http://www.km4dev.org/wiki/index.php/Open_Space_Discussion_Reports) - so we didn't have to provide computers in the back of the room; most of the participants had their notebooks with them and we just announced the wiki URL - this worked excellent.
> >
> >
> > What also worked great was: having no facilitator to hold
> > space. I opened the OS but during the nomination of topics
> > declared that I would now convert into a normal participant;
> > I quickly returned to the facilitator role for just one
> > sentence to open the market place and they we took off.
> > Evening news were done by other people - a group, one doing
> > a closing circle, some doing some announcements, and a
> > professional theatre artist did some funny performance games
> > with the entire group.
> > I reopened the OS next morning to recollect some more
> > topics, but from there onwards, I again dived back into the
> > crowd and entirely forgot about the process. The second
> > evening was pretty much "participatory managed" like the
> > first. It just worked great!
> >
> >
> > This leaves me with the questions:
> > What means "holding space"? What is the function, if
> > demonstrably one can do without?
> > Or is it really that the group as a whole can hold space
> > (which seemed to be the case)? Any group?
> > Why do we really need any facilitator throughout the event?
> > And consequently under which conditions can we dispense with
> > it?
> > What is the risk? Can this go totally wrong?
> >
> >
> > Again many thanks to those who contributed to the previous
> > discussion!
> > Best regards,
> > -marc
> >
> >
> >
> > IngeniousPeoplesKnowledge
> > Marc Steinlin
> > marc.steinlin at i-p-k.ch
> > Skype: marcsteinlin
> >
> >
> > PO Box 27494
> > Rhine Road
> > Sea Point
> > 8050 Cape Town
> > Republic of South Africa
> > Mobile: +27 (76) 222 81 12
> >
> >
> > Zweierstrasse 50
> > CH-8004 Zürich
> > Switzerland
> > Mobile: +41 (78) 850 42 32
> >
> >
> > http://www.i-p-k.ch
> >
> > P Help save paper - do you really need to print this email ?
> >
> >
> > 'Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed
> > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing
> > that ever has.' Margaret Mead
> >
> > On 25 May 2008, at 14:46 , Marc Steinlin (I-P-K) wrote:
> >
> > > Dear all, many thanks for your feedback! I will take up
> > > your ideas and inputs with my colleagues.
> > >
> > >
> > > I can take some ideas with me: initially I was more
> > > thinking of having each of us facilitating a part of the
> > > OS - "serial" facilitation. But on the basis of your
> > > comments, I feel like maybe rather going for "parallel"
> > > facilitation. I don't know exactly what that means, but
> > > have a feeling emerging in my guts - I'm positive we will
> > > know how to do it.
> > > Thanks for the words of caution, in particular to you
> > > Michael. I have made similar experiences in other contexts
> > > with regard to confused roles, projections and so on and
> > > if we are aware of this possibility, I'm sure we - well,
> > > as you say maybe not avoid it, but will be able to deal
> > > with it when it's there. But I'm not really afraid of
> > > this, I have a lot of confidence in my friends' and my own
> > > experience.
> > >
> > >
> > > What makes things easier is that nobody would consider me
> > > as their leader. I will - together with others -
> > > facilitate the event, and for some it will be their first
> > > full-fledged OS experience, but nobody would think I might
> > > be something like their "leader" beyond facilitating this
> > > day. The nice thing about this group of people is, that it
> > > is very open and open-minded community - in fact I feel
> > > that the open space philosophy is very close to the
> > > thinking of this group.
> > >
> > >
> > > I also like very much the idea of adopting OS as a system
> > > of continuous operation, which has come through some of
> > > your responses. I am currently thinking about how to run
> > > my own little organisation in a micro-macro-OS way: micro
> > > because at this stage we are just 3 of us, macro because I
> > > would like to start somehow getting into the OS way and
> > > opening space, but not really closing it anymore - eg.
> > > having a constantly evolving market place of topics that
> > > we are conversing about, and to somehow apply the
> > > principles as our normal mode of operation. Don't know
> > > whether this (will) make any sense...
> > >
> > >
> > > -marc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > IngeniousPeoplesKnowledge
> > > Marc Steinlin
> > > marc.steinlin at i-p-k.ch
> > > Skype: marcsteinlin
> > >
> > >
> > > PO Box 27494
> > > Rhine Road
> > > Sea Point
> > > 8050 Cape Town
> > > Republic of South Africa
> > > Mobile: +27 (76) 222 81 12
> > >
> > >
> > > Zweierstrasse 50
> > > CH-8004 Zürich
> > > Switzerland
> > > Mobile: +41 (78) 850 42 32
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.i-p-k.ch
> > >
> > > P Help save paper - do you really need to print this
> > > email ?
> > >
> > >
> > > 'Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed
> > > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only
> > > thing that ever has.' Margaret Mead
> > >
> > > On 21 May 2008, at 17:31 , Ted Ernst wrote:
> > >
> > > > I echo the voices saying that this is not only possible,
> > > > it can be a
> > > > good thing for the organization. I've tried this alone
> > > > and also with
> > > > a partner. I felt much better with a partner. With
> > > > four of you, I
> > > > would think you could all 4 be involved in breakouts
> > > > without any
> > > > trouble losing the space-holding that you're all doing.
> > > > Can't wait to
> > > > hear how it goes!
> > > > peace,
> > > > ted
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Michael Herman
> > > > <michael at michaelherman.com> wrote:
> > > > > i'm encouraged by and encouraging of this, mark.
> > > > > thanks for sharing the
> > > > > question.
> > > > >
> > > > > this, to me, is the next step of the "facilitator"
> > > > > learning to disappear.
> > > > > it seems to me that we'll ultimately have more and
> > > > > more open space
> > > > > if/when/as people/leaders learn to do this from
> > > > > within, not abandoning their
> > > > > position as leader, but refining a pulsation between
> > > > > directing or actively
> > > > > guiding, on the one hand, and inviting and hosting on
> > > > > the other.
> > > > >
> > > > > i think your sense of several being able to share the
> > > > > role, or support each
> > > > > other in it, is helpful as well. but i would
> > > > > encourage a faster pulsation
> > > > > than daily. consider a second law: the law of two
> > > > > roles. or maybe the law
> > > > > of two minds. one mind inviting, hosting, holding and
> > > > > the other mind still
> > > > > nominally in charge, at the top, as director.
> > > > > somatically, this can be
> > > > > understood as pelvis (literally holding a space for
> > > > > everything stacked on
> > > > > top) and brain (seeing, visioning, choosing and
> > > > > directing). the whole thing
> > > > > mediated by heart in the middle. so you can find your
> > > > > way between the two
> > > > > roles you've identified by following heart, same as
> > > > > navigating learning and
> > > > > contributing as participant using law of two feet. so
> > > > > the practice is to
> > > > > refine your pulsation between the two, until they look
> > > > > and feel like the
> > > > > same "being".
> > > > >
> > > > > two cautions, or mileposts really, on the way...
> > > > >
> > > > > first, while you're pulsing back and forth, i find
> > > > > it's easy to get lost.
> > > > > yes, sometimes that means getting caught up in
> > > > > conversation, letting
> > > > > attention focus locally and forgetting about the
> > > > > larger space, maybe
> > > > > forgetting to ring the bells for evening news, for
> > > > > instance. it's helpful
> > > > > to have partners to remind you, or to ring them for
> > > > > you. in the same way,
> > > > > it is also possible to accidentally not be fully
> > > > > present in a breakout
> > > > > session, to be not fully local, and in that state, be
> > > > > offering views of the
> > > > > world that nobody else sees or can understand, cuz
> > > > > they don't have this
> > > > > larger view of space. the caution isn't about not
> > > > > sharing, but about
> > > > > recognizing that it's possible to do, possible to try
> > > > > to be in a breakout
> > > > > session but bringing experiences that are totally
> > > > > foreign to those who are
> > > > > apparently your colleagues and partners in the group.
> > > > > this not an
> > > > > unfamiliar situation for leaders who regularly have
> > > > > more information, a
> > > > > wider view, that those in the "trenches" in an
> > > > > organizaiton.
> > > > >
> > > > > the second caution or noting here is less obvious, or
> > > > > peculiar to straddling
> > > > > the facilitation/participation divide in open space.
> > > > > i don't think fr.
> > > > > brian will mind if i tell a story about osonos in oz
> > > > > to illustrate. he was
> > > > > facilitator and host, but also a member of the
> > > > > community. he ran a great
> > > > > event, facilitated the whole thing "by the book".
> > > > > there was somebody there,
> > > > > however, who had not had firsthand experience with our
> > > > > approach. she also
> > > > > knew that brian was a priest. when she had a
> > > > > difficult time with how things
> > > > > were going in open space, and discomforts do naturally
> > > > > arise for
> > > > > participants at various and random moments, her
> > > > > experience with "priest"
> > > > > allowed her to dump responsibility for difficulties on
> > > > > "how the facilitator
> > > > > is", what he's doing, how he's run things, etc. all
> > > > > of that story she was
> > > > > making was nonesense and after a long talk, she
> > > > > understood that her
> > > > > difficulty came from what he wasn't and didn't do. it
> > > > > was the openess of
> > > > > the space, the press of responsibility and reality
> > > > > that was making her
> > > > > squirm. so it was the combination of *her* newness in
> > > > > open space and her
> > > > > (in this case rather thin) connection to brian that
> > > > > allowed her to make up a
> > > > > story that was getting in her way. so if you have
> > > > > colleagues new to this
> > > > > experience and you are still known as some sort of
> > > > > 'leader' or just some
> > > > > sort of guy to these folks, they might be confused by
> > > > > what is open space,
> > > > > what is you, what is you as leader and what you as
> > > > > facilitator, and so on.
> > > > > in the end, this is just a noticing that such
> > > > > confusion is possible. there
> > > > > is nothing to "do" about it, other than know it's
> > > > > there and possible. if
> > > > > you notice it along the way in your meeting, and maybe
> > > > > it'll be there or
> > > > > maybe it won't, then all the clarity you will bring to
> > > > > the process from the
> > > > > very beginning, is all you will or can or should bring
> > > > > to that moment. just
> > > > > be as clean in both roles as you can, and as clear
> > > > > about what is you and
> > > > > what is reality of org/world, and it's all still open
> > > > > space, or not.
> > > > >
> > > > > good luck! i hope you'll find this is a great and fun
> > > > > practice, and come
> > > > > back and tell some of the internal story of how it
> > > > > goes for you...
> > > > >
> > > > > m
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Jack Martin Leith
> > > > > <jack at jackmartinleith.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Harrison, those are some of the wisest words I've
> > > > > > ever read. Thank you!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jack
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2008/5/21 Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Marc – I have done what you are proposing
> > > > > > > (actively participate in a
> > > > > > > gathering I facilitate) on multiple occasions and
> > > > > > > have never encountered any
> > > > > > > problems, and I rather think you will have a
> > > > > > > similar experience. I would
> > > > > > > never suggest that you try such a thing if it were
> > > > > > > your first experience
> > > > > > > facilitating an Open Space, but that is obviously
> > > > > > > not the case.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The art of Holding Space is of course critical and
> > > > > > > because it is so
> > > > > > > different from what most people have come to
> > > > > > > understand "facilitation" to
> > > > > > > mean – it is just too easy for the first time
> > > > > > > facilitator to get sucked into
> > > > > > > the action and forget to mind the store. But with
> > > > > > > experience, at least in my
> > > > > > > experience, you can keep that old intuitive sense
> > > > > > > alive and functioning even
> > > > > > > when actively engaged in a conversation of
> > > > > > > passionate concern to you. As I
> > > > > > > think about it, this is probably where we all hope
> > > > > > > to end up anyhow. At some
> > > > > > > level every conversation is an Open Space, and the
> > > > > > > more open the space, the
> > > > > > > better the conversation. And a really great
> > > > > > > conversation has a powerful
> > > > > > > (passionate) focus while still being open to
> > > > > > > everything else that is going
> > > > > > > on in the environment.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Approaching the same thoughts from a slightly
> > > > > > > different point of view, I
> > > > > > > find that when a group really begins to
> > > > > > > groove/cook/work – space holding is
> > > > > > > a community activity. In fact, enabling a group to
> > > > > > > reach a point where it
> > > > > > > will effectively "hold its own space," might well
> > > > > > > be the Holy Grail of OST.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So anyhow, I would think that rather than a
> > > > > > > problem, you have a real
> > > > > > > opportunity to enhance your own capacity as
> > > > > > > facilitator by moving into that
> > > > > > > marvelously "zeny" place where you are
> > > > > > > simultaneously attached and
> > > > > > > non-attached – passionately concerned about an
> > > > > > > issue and always free to move
> > > > > > > beyond. And if you want to share this opportunity
> > > > > > > with your colleagues
> > > > > > > (different people opening space every day) that
> > > > > > > would work for me, or at
> > > > > > > least it always has.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Have fun!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Harrison
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Harrison Owen
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 7808 River Falls Drive
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Potomac, Maryland 20854
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Phone 301-365-2093
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Skype hhowen
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Personal website www.ho-image.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your
> > > > > > > options, view the
> > > > > > > archives Visit:
> > > > > > > www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: OSLIST
> > > > > > > [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf
> > > > > > > Of Marc
> > > > > > > Steinlin (I-P-K)
> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 1:18 AM
> > > > > > > To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > > > > > > Subject: Going underground as facilitator
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dear OS list members,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have been following this list for almost two
> > > > > > > years now and have enjoyed
> > > > > > > many of your conversations, learnings, ideas and
> > > > > > > inspirational thoughts!
> > > > > > > Many thanks for all that valuable insight and
> > > > > > > encouragement!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I myself over the last 2 years have organised/
> > > > > > > facilitated approx. 20 OS
> > > > > > > all over the world (from Switzerland to South
> > > > > > > Africa, from Indonesia to
> > > > > > > Ethiopia), some as large as 70 participants
> > > > > > > (unfortunately I never had the
> > > > > > > opportunity for a larger group - would love to try
> > > > > > > that!), some as small as
> > > > > > > 5 persons - and I (as well as the participants!)
> > > > > > > enjoy it greatly each time!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We, the KM4Dev (a global community of practice on
> > > > > > > Knowledge Management
> > > > > > > for Development; http://www.km4dev.org) have
> > > > > > > decided to run this year's
> > > > > > > annual meeting over 2.5 days entirely as an OS. We
> > > > > > > are about four persons
> > > > > > > who have already facilitated OS and are preparing
> > > > > > > the facilitation of the
> > > > > > > event.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However, all of the four of us are also greatly
> > > > > > > interested in the topics
> > > > > > > which will be discussed, it's certain that we also
> > > > > > > want to propose topics
> > > > > > > for groups to work on. Therefore my question:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is it possible, that a facilitator opens the Open
> > > > > > > Space, but once the
> > > > > > > market place starts, she/ he will transform into a
> > > > > > > regular participant and
> > > > > > > mingle with the rest? I always attached great
> > > > > > > importance to "holding space"
> > > > > > > - I have never been doing anything actively, I
> > > > > > > have done my best to get out
> > > > > > > of the way, however I have been there, almost
> > > > > > > invisible, but still...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you have any experience or advice on whether
> > > > > > > the facilitator can give
> > > > > > > up her/ his role and become a normal participant
> > > > > > > until to the closing
> > > > > > > circle?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Alternatively, do you have any thoughts about
> > > > > > > rotating faciliators:
> > > > > > > person A doing it on the first day, B on the
> > > > > > > second day, so that we all have
> > > > > > > the opportunity to participate in the discussions
> > > > > > > with our own topics? I
> > > > > > > guess none of us would want to limit her/ himself
> > > > > > > for the full duration to
> > > > > > > just holding space...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your experience is much appreciated!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -marc
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > IngeniousPeoplesKnowledge
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Marc Steinlin
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > marc.steinlin at i-p-k.ch
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Skype: marcsteinlin
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > PO Box 27494
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rhine Road
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sea Point
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 8050 Cape Town
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Republic of South Africa
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mobile: +27 (76) 222 81 12
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Zweierstrasse 50
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > CH-8004 Zürich
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Switzerland
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mobile: +41 (78) 850 42 32
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.i-p-k.ch
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > P Help save paper - do you really need to print
> > > > > > > this email ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 'Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful,
> > > > > > > committed citizens can
> > > > > > > change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing
> > > > > > > that ever has.' Margaret Mead
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * *
> > > > > > > ==========================================================
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> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Jack Martin Leith
> > > > > > Bristol, United Kingdom
> > > > > > Mobile: 07831 840541 (+44 7831 840541)
> > > > > > Skype: jackmartinleith
> > > > > > email: jack at jackmartinleith.com
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> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael Herman
> > > > > Michael Herman Associates
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.michaelherman.com
> > > > > http://www.openspaceworld.org
> > > > > http://www.chicagoconservationcorps.org
> > > > >
> > > > > 312-280-7838 (mobile) * *
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> > > >
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