hierarchy and things
Alan Stewart
alanmstewart at gmail.com
Sun Jul 15 20:35:50 PDT 2007
Dear Brian and All
This is for those who are interested in matters of hierarchies and for you, a dweller in one :-). My 'noticing' it is a nice example of 'whatever happens ...' in everyday life.
When 'half' listening recently to an item broadcast on BBC World Service radio I was taken with two elements; the great clarity with which the person spoke and her accent.
And so I googled to discover that she:
. is Lesley-Anne Knight, newly appointed Secretary General of Caritas Internationalis which could be considered to be integral to a hierarchical system ...
. was born in Zimbabwe, the country that I come from.
>From this search I found this lovely 'bonus':
Lesley-Anne recognises the wonder and beauty of being in Open Space. At least this is my interpretation from seeing these comments in her inaugural speech.
"... As this General Assembly draw to a close, I would like to reflect briefly on one of the lasting impressions I shall take away with me - and that is how we have shown so successfully this week the capacity for dialogue to create unity among diversity. At coffee breaks, meal times, in the corridors, there has been a real buzz of reaching out and engaging. Through conversation we build a world of shared significance - through the process of listening to another, sharing another perspective, we build trust and mutual respect. We don't necessarily have to agree, but when we are willing to listen to one another, when we listen with the ear of our hearts, we often discover those universal values that unite us in our diversity. This offers us a vision of hope for what might be achieved if we could only reproduce this in the wider world. Through dialogue we recognise the love that makes us one humanity; we become 'witnesses of charity'. And that recognition is the foundation upon which we can build peace ..."
It seems to me that this resonates with your yearning as expressed in your posting? (below)
For bringing OST to the attention * of people such as Lesley-Anne Knight - and myriad others who have
had similar experiencing - could help them to do what they also yearn for: To reproduce such experiences in the wider world.
I wonder how this sounds to you?
Go well
With love
Alan
* in the spirit as expressed by a person whom I had the wonderful opportunity to meet twice (the second was at his home on Rattlesnake Hill, Pescadero, California, shortly before he died).
Take it or leave it.
I don't want to sell anything to anyone.
I don't want to persuade any human being.
I only want to draw attention.
The only thing I want is to draw attention.
~ Heinz von Foerster
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian S Bainbridge
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: hierarchy and things
Responding to Chris Corrigan's insighting.
Dear Chris
As a person who - perhaps as much as any other Open Space character - lives within a dominantly hierarchic system, I have very little personal interest in the matter of hierarchies, except to note that they "are there" in some fashion.
What I am excited about in your letter is the last paragraph - talking about seeing "the larger implications for organizing human endeavours" , the "incredibly inspired thinking", the "broad implications for the way things are organized", and the "crux of the next level of investigations into what all these methodologies mean".
For me personally, this is why I have kept going to the OSonOS gatherings, hoping that - as I said recently to Michael Pannwitz Jnr, - there might be the emergence of some impacting and effective discussion and prospective exploration relating to these very aspects of our work.
For more years than I can remember, these are the real goals and dreams of why I open space, every time. And, with so many other wonderful people in this network, I know an immense amount of change and growth and development and success has been achieved.
To share the insighting, to help it happen more widely yet, to encourage "newbies" to start to think in these terms, to work up themes which stimulate such results, and to learn from so many other more experienced people than I how to help these things happen better - that, for me, is what an OSonOS is primarily about. That this goal is perhaps seldom achieved (IMHO at least) only means it is more important yet to continue trying to help it happen, whatever of the immense personal expense and inconvenience and long- distance travel and so on.
All praise to you - again - Chris, for getting this very aspect into words - for me at least. The Camden gathering could be very special, perhaps. That's my prayer.
Ta!
Cheers and blessings, BRIAN
Fr Brian S. Bainbridge
0412 111 525
Skype: briansbain
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Corrigan
Sent: Sunday, 15 July 2007 9:30 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: hierarchy...was report from the field
Within the Art of Hosting community of practice, we have been looking at a fifth organizational paradigm, which is something like a combination of hierarchy, circle, network and bureaucracy. Some of us have been looking at what these four paradigms have to offer, for examples, hierarchy offers order and clarity, circle offers an equal reflective space, network offers an immediate ability to connect with whatever is needed, and bureaucracy helps channel resources where they are needed, "irrigating" initiatives or parts of an organization.
Certainly, each of these has a dark side, but if the benefits are illuminated and then transcended, you get a fifth organizational paradigm in which all four can be somehow present and somehow something new is born. I think we are increasingly seeing Open Space meetings as the embodiments of this fifth form, which has gone by many other names among those of us here on the list: InterActive Organization, Conscious Open Space Organization, Inviting Organization, Radiant Networking and so on. There is something in the pattern of Open Space that, if it has not yet achieved transcendence of these four forms, at least leads the eye to what might emerge. Self-organization is clearly the key, or at least the gas in the engine.
I find it interesting that many of us who are devoted to these models of dialogic practice can.
Great thread.
Chris
On 7/15/07, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:
Raffi -- You will notice that I very carefully did not use the word
"hierarchy," but a quite different word -- "elitism." I am not sure that is
the right word either, but that is the problem with words. Indeed, hierarchy
itself (as you point out) is not a bad thing. Quite natural in fact and very
useful. Heirarchy is a problem, however, when it is frozen and stuck. At
that point it becomes an "old" hierarchy reflective of a different time
and/or situation, holding power and authority very much in the fashion of
the Divine Right of Kings. That is what I would call elitism. The real
problem is that it is non-functional because it limits the capacity of a
system to adapt to a changing environment. This of course can go on for a
long time, and indeed some environments stick around for a bit. But at the
moment a stable environment seems to be more the exception than the rule. So
Heirarchy, Yes. Elitism, No.
In terms of our community of folks -- to be sure there is hierarchy, in fact
there are multiple hierarchies constantly changing with time and tide, and
many existing simultaneously in a wonderful dance of conflict and
collaboration. I think that is fantastic, useful, and something to be
honored. However, if we ever got to the point where there was one,
unchanging hierarchy that would be the last moment you would be seeing me
anywhere on the premises -- even if, and most especially if, I was the King
of the heap!
I think Kaliya is absolutely correct in pointing out the utility of a
"repetitional meritocratic hierarchy" (WOW! -- the words sort of roll off
the tongue!!). And if I understand the words at all, I think that is pretty
much what "we" are. I would also agree that experience, training, maturity
are critical -- in Open Space, as everywhere else. But I would take some
issue with the notion that, "Open Space Technology is fundamentally
different then these two community practices -- OST is not trying to build
an operating system or have 100,000 all collaborate on the same thing - it
doesn't 'need' the kind of hierarchy that technical communities do."
From where I sit, the adventure we have embarked on is actually larger and
more complex than the "simple business" of creating an operating system. Our
task (or at least the one I choose for myself) is not so much about
designing a system but rather the appreciation of the infinite complexity
and elegance of the self-organizing Human System. And this is not just
"music appreciation," performance is the name of the game. How do we
effectively live in this system, and maybe even more importantly, what can
we do to enable the system to live?
I think of Open Space as a wonderful natural experiment in which thousands
of people are participating. The power of the experiment emerges when we
freely and openly share our experiences and understandings. And everybody
has a vital part to play. Those of us who have been around for a bit may
have a broader and possibly deeper view, but there is an almost inevitable
tendency to take some things for granted and get stuck in our ways. The
antidote for all of that is the arrival of fresh eyes with apparently "dumb
questions." There are no dumb questions that are also real questions. Real
questions have no answers, they only open more space and take you deeper.
And when you have lots of space (up, down, sideways, wherever)-- then the
fun begins.
Harrison
-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Raffi
Aftandelian
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 2:08 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: hierarchy...was report from the field
Greetings friends and colleagues--
Harrison you wrote:
"The other day I got a note which said in part, "I was surprised to
find out that there was a hierarchy in the OST community and everyone having
a specific place to hold, voices are not equal and politics prevails in
certain circuits Just the same old same old... I'm not sure this is what
you envisioned with OST." I have no idea what the specific circumstances
were, and less interest in finding out. But presuming that we have the
creeping tentacles of elitism sneaking in - a good dose of the Law of Two
Feet and a clear recognition of the Universal License of Open Space
(everybody has one by birth) should do the trick. Or something."
I would love to hear more from the person who wrote about hierarchy in the
OST community. What is meant by "hierarchy" here?
Isn't there hierarchy everywhere? Is it a bad thing? The question is what
kind of hierarchy do we have in the OST community? Is it a hierarchy that
feeds us, strengthens us? And how do we choose to engage with it as a
community? Do we create the spaces to talk about the power differentials
within our practitioner community in a way that, well, builds more capacity
within us?
Quakers, for example, acknowledge that voices are not equal within the life
of a Monthly Meeting. They have the concept of "weightiness" or a "weighty
Friend." In other words, these are the elders within the Quaker world.
And doesn't the OST world have its elders and sages?
I, too, have heard (and thought) that the OST community is the "same
old...," - heck, some of that "same oldness" shows up on the list from time
to time- *and* I do not know of a more generous, welcoming, inspiring
facilitation community. We either choose to engage with the OST community as
it is, or...well exercise the law of two feet.
Raffi
*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
--
CHRIS CORRIGAN
Facilitation - Training
Open Space Technology
Weblog: http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot
Site: http://www.chriscorrigan.com
Principal, Harvest Moon Consultants, Ltd.
http://www.harvestmoonconsultants.com * * ========================================================== OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
* * ========================================================== OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
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Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.6/902 - Release Date: 7/15/2007 2:21 PM
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian S Bainbridge
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: hierarchy and things
Responding to Chris Corrigan's insighting.
Dear Chris
As a person who - perhaps as much as any other Open Space character - lives within a dominantly hierarchic system, I have very little personal interest in the matter of hierarchies, except to note that they "are there" in some fashion.
What I am excited about in your letter is the last paragraph - talking about seeing "the larger implications for organizing human endeavours" , the "incredibly inspired thinking", the "broad implications for the way things are organized", and the "crux of the next level of investigations into what all these methodologies mean".
For me personally, this is why I have kept going to the OSonOS gatherings, hoping that - as I said recently to Michael Pannwitz Jnr, - there might be the emergence of some impacting and effective discussion and prospective exploration relating to these very aspects of our work.
For more years than I can remember, these are the real goals and dreams of why I open space, every time. And, with so many other wonderful people in this network, I know an immense amount of change and growth and development and success has been achieved.
To share the insighting, to help it happen more widely yet, to encourage "newbies" to start to think in these terms, to work up themes which stimulate such results, and to learn from so many other more experienced people than I how to help these things happen better - that, for me, is what an OSonOS is primarily about. That this goal is perhaps seldom achieved (IMHO at least) only means it is more important yet to continue trying to help it happen, whatever of the immense personal expense and inconvenience and long- distance travel and so on.
All praise to you - again - Chris, for getting this very aspect into words - for me at least. The Camden gathering could be very special, perhaps. That's my prayer.
Ta!
Cheers and blessings, BRIAN
Fr Brian S. Bainbridge
0412 111 525
Skype: briansbain
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Corrigan
Sent: Sunday, 15 July 2007 9:30 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: hierarchy...was report from the field
Within the Art of Hosting community of practice, we have been looking at a fifth organizational paradigm, which is something like a combination of hierarchy, circle, network and bureaucracy. Some of us have been looking at what these four paradigms have to offer, for examples, hierarchy offers order and clarity, circle offers an equal reflective space, network offers an immediate ability to connect with whatever is needed, and bureaucracy helps channel resources where they are needed, "irrigating" initiatives or parts of an organization.
Certainly, each of these has a dark side, but if the benefits are illuminated and then transcended, you get a fifth organizational paradigm in which all four can be somehow present and somehow something new is born. I think we are increasingly seeing Open Space meetings as the embodiments of this fifth form, which has gone by many other names among those of us here on the list: InterActive Organization, Conscious Open Space Organization, Inviting Organization, Radiant Networking and so on. There is something in the pattern of Open Space that, if it has not yet achieved transcendence of these four forms, at least leads the eye to what might emerge. Self-organization is clearly the key, or at least the gas in the engine.
I find it interesting that many of us who are devoted to these models of dialogic practice can.
Great thread.
Chris
On 7/15/07, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:
Raffi -- You will notice that I very carefully did not use the word
"hierarchy," but a quite different word -- "elitism." I am not sure that is
the right word either, but that is the problem with words. Indeed, hierarchy
itself (as you point out) is not a bad thing. Quite natural in fact and very
useful. Heirarchy is a problem, however, when it is frozen and stuck. At
that point it becomes an "old" hierarchy reflective of a different time
and/or situation, holding power and authority very much in the fashion of
the Divine Right of Kings. That is what I would call elitism. The real
problem is that it is non-functional because it limits the capacity of a
system to adapt to a changing environment. This of course can go on for a
long time, and indeed some environments stick around for a bit. But at the
moment a stable environment seems to be more the exception than the rule. So
Heirarchy, Yes. Elitism, No.
In terms of our community of folks -- to be sure there is hierarchy, in fact
there are multiple hierarchies constantly changing with time and tide, and
many existing simultaneously in a wonderful dance of conflict and
collaboration. I think that is fantastic, useful, and something to be
honored. However, if we ever got to the point where there was one,
unchanging hierarchy that would be the last moment you would be seeing me
anywhere on the premises -- even if, and most especially if, I was the King
of the heap!
I think Kaliya is absolutely correct in pointing out the utility of a
"repetitional meritocratic hierarchy" (WOW! -- the words sort of roll off
the tongue!!). And if I understand the words at all, I think that is pretty
much what "we" are. I would also agree that experience, training, maturity
are critical -- in Open Space, as everywhere else. But I would take some
issue with the notion that, "Open Space Technology is fundamentally
different then these two community practices -- OST is not trying to build
an operating system or have 100,000 all collaborate on the same thing - it
doesn't 'need' the kind of hierarchy that technical communities do."
From where I sit, the adventure we have embarked on is actually larger and
more complex than the "simple business" of creating an operating system. Our
task (or at least the one I choose for myself) is not so much about
designing a system but rather the appreciation of the infinite complexity
and elegance of the self-organizing Human System. And this is not just
"music appreciation," performance is the name of the game. How do we
effectively live in this system, and maybe even more importantly, what can
we do to enable the system to live?
I think of Open Space as a wonderful natural experiment in which thousands
of people are participating. The power of the experiment emerges when we
freely and openly share our experiences and understandings. And everybody
has a vital part to play. Those of us who have been around for a bit may
have a broader and possibly deeper view, but there is an almost inevitable
tendency to take some things for granted and get stuck in our ways. The
antidote for all of that is the arrival of fresh eyes with apparently "dumb
questions." There are no dumb questions that are also real questions. Real
questions have no answers, they only open more space and take you deeper.
And when you have lots of space (up, down, sideways, wherever)-- then the
fun begins.
Harrison
-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Raffi
Aftandelian
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 2:08 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: hierarchy...was report from the field
Greetings friends and colleagues--
Harrison you wrote:
"The other day I got a note which said in part, "I was surprised to
find out that there was a hierarchy in the OST community and everyone having
a specific place to hold, voices are not equal and politics prevails in
certain circuits Just the same old same old... I'm not sure this is what
you envisioned with OST." I have no idea what the specific circumstances
were, and less interest in finding out. But presuming that we have the
creeping tentacles of elitism sneaking in - a good dose of the Law of Two
Feet and a clear recognition of the Universal License of Open Space
(everybody has one by birth) should do the trick. Or something."
I would love to hear more from the person who wrote about hierarchy in the
OST community. What is meant by "hierarchy" here?
Isn't there hierarchy everywhere? Is it a bad thing? The question is what
kind of hierarchy do we have in the OST community? Is it a hierarchy that
feeds us, strengthens us? And how do we choose to engage with it as a
community? Do we create the spaces to talk about the power differentials
within our practitioner community in a way that, well, builds more capacity
within us?
Quakers, for example, acknowledge that voices are not equal within the life
of a Monthly Meeting. They have the concept of "weightiness" or a "weighty
Friend." In other words, these are the elders within the Quaker world.
And doesn't the OST world have its elders and sages?
I, too, have heard (and thought) that the OST community is the "same
old...," - heck, some of that "same oldness" shows up on the list from time
to time- *and* I do not know of a more generous, welcoming, inspiring
facilitation community. We either choose to engage with the OST community as
it is, or...well exercise the law of two feet.
Raffi
*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
--
CHRIS CORRIGAN
Facilitation - Training
Open Space Technology
Weblog: http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot
Site: http://www.chriscorrigan.com
Principal, Harvest Moon Consultants, Ltd.
http://www.harvestmoonconsultants.com * * ========================================================== OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
* * ========================================================== OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.6/902 - Release Date: 7/15/2007 2:21 PM
*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
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