Mutli-LIngual and non-primary Language Open space
Peggy Holman
peggy at opencirclecompany.com
Wed Apr 25 11:00:27 PDT 2007
Hi Kaliya,
Welcome to the OS list! It is indeed a very supportive community.
This seems to be my time of visiting the archives. Below are some responses
to the multiple languages question from 1998, 2000 and 2001. BTW, there are
LOTS of messages. I've copied in seven. If you want more, the archives are
online (link at the bottom of the message).
I would add something on my own experiences but it seems well covered in
what's below.
Peggy
----- Original Message -----
From: Peg Holman
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.IDBSU.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 2:48 PM
Subject: Fw: Multi-Language Open space
Thought you might enjoy Harrison's response to the multi-language
question.
Peg
-----Original Message-----
From: owen <owen at tmn.com>
To: edeb at pacbell.net <edeb at pacbell.net>
Cc: Holman, Peggy <pholman at email.msn.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 11:13 AM
Subject: Multi-Language Open space
Peg Holamn forwared your question about language. I once did an open space
with 17 different languages, no simultaneous tranlation and no problems.
Secret is what i call "The International Bar Approach" At any good bar, if
you want to talk to someone, someone else is surely about who can translate.
So in Open Space the conveners of a session write the title of that session
in the language they propose to operate in. They then provide a translation
in some other "basic" language (English or French will usually work). So
when a person goes to the wall to make a choice, they know what language
will be spoken, and if that is not a comfortable language for them they will
have to bring a "language buddy." I find that language buddies build
community... so rather than being a bother, they actually add to the whole
affair. One thing not to do is make any effort to provide simultaneous
translation in the groups. Total waste of time, and it is much too slow. I
would even wonder about translantion in the opening session. After all this
is not rocket science. I once did an ost in latin america... we had minimal
translation and no problem. The whole thing is so intuitive, once it starts
everybody pretty much knows what to do. Relax... it works. h.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Copleman" <earthdreams at EARTHLINK.NET>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: languages
> Regarding opening the space in different languages...
>
> I have done this twice, once in Spanish, and another time in both Kurdish
> and Arabic. I speak only English, so I had to have help.
>
> Everything I said was translated into the other languages as I spoke, and
> this worked just fine. I made a point of doing things as I spoke:
>
> 1. I used none of the little metaphors, analogies, jokes, or idiomatic
> remarks I normally employ with American groups.
> 2. I broke up my presentation into small pieces, letting the translator
> deal with only one or two sentences at a time, or even just a simple
> phrase,
> such as "Principle number one." etc.
>
> I think it's also important to keep in mind that the meetings we
> facilitate
> have specific purposes (such as coordinating volunteer efforts). These
> purposes are the reason our clients hire us, not to demonstrate that
> self-organization works. Self-organization, by definition, happens, even
> when we inadvertently get in its way. I don't think we could be the
> guardians of such a process even if we knew all about it. Even during
> break-out sessions, have all the translators you want.
>
>
> --
> Ralph Copleman
****************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Peterson" <lpasoc at INFORAMP.NET>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: languages
>I think Ralph's advice is right on from my experience. With two official
> languages in Canada, and a big infrastructure for simultaneous translation
> it is often a requirement to have it during plenary events (for political
> as
> well as other reasons). Diane Gibeault is the expert on this and is in
> Spain at the moment, but I have done it quite a few times in
> French-English-Signing, Inuktutuk-English-French, Cree-French-English,
> etc.
>
> It is ok to have simultaneous translation happening while opening and
> closing the space. Pacing is important and preparing the translators so
> that they know they key phases -- like the principles and law -- in the
> languages being spoken. Otherwise they can come out quite strange.
>
> In some settings we have had individual translators to work with folks
> with
> particular languages. Signers for the hearing impaired followed them
> throughout the event and spoke if necessary for them. In breakout
> sessions,
> groups have often not provided translators unless requested and let the
> participants translate for each other. You need to allow more time for
> the
> conversations but it works.
>
> Materials for reporting need to be in all languages being used, but
> computers that have the right character sets. Getting laptops in a local
> dialect of Inuktutuk just seemed to happen.
>
> Getting the reports prepared in all languages has been required by some of
> my sponsors. That has been onerous as it is costly here in Canada and
> professional translators do not choose to work overnight. I have done
> convergence with reports in the language of the group putting it up, but
> it
> takes some report back in plenary and that can kill energy. So a creative
> way to do it is important. If your sponsor can turn around the report
> overnight in three languages before convergence -- go for it.
>
> Larry
>
> Larry Peterson
> Associates in Transformation
***************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joelle Lyons Everett" <JLEShelton at aol.com>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: languages
> Jo--
>
> I just finished a week which included a full day of Appreciative Inquiry
> and
> three half-days in Open Space with a group which included eight women from
> Siberia, the American project director, and three American facilitators.
> Only the Siberian project director spoke both Russian and English.
>
> During the AI, we had people work in same-language dyads, then we formed 2
> groups, one working in Russian only and one which included the Siberian
> director, 2 Americans and 3 other Siberians. It was slow to have to
> translate all the discussion in the mixed group, but interesting and
> moving.
> At one point each group planned and presented skits, with a brief summary
> translated at the end.
>
> During the OS, the women were discussing ways to implement ideas they had
> seen during their 3-week trip, so they worked in Russian without
> translation--it was fun to watch the animated discussions. Convenors
> hand-wrote a brief report in Russian on a prepared Russian-language form
> and
> these were posted. At the end, each convenor made a brief verbal report
> in
> Russian to the whole group and these were translated by the interpreter.
> I
> scribbled notes like crazy and am preparing a report in English. We were
> really glad to have at least a summary of the work available to everyone.
> I
> could have done it onsite if I had had my computer.
>
> My take on your question is to have an interpreter available to anyone who
> asks for translation, and to help with the reporting process. The OS
> piece
> is that there is no need to translate all conversations and sessions while
> they are happening, only as needed. The interpreters need to make
> themselves
> available for one-on-one conversations as well as mixed-language sessions.
> This was not always possible on our project, and I felt a sense of loss at
> not getting to know participants in a more personal way.
>
> Best of luck on your ambitious and important project!
>
> Joelle Everett
> jleshelton at aol.com
>
> *
***********************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jo Toepfer" <jotoepfer at GMX.NET>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 10:57 PM
Subject: languages
> Dear colleagues,
>
> the 1.5 days OS with the diverse group of 20 people from 7 European
> countries on "How can we co-ordinate our trans-European volunteer
> programme" is over now. Our general approach to the languages issue was,
> that we defined English as the first and major language, but we organized
> some supporting measures:
> - open the space and walking the circle in two languages (English [me] and
> Russian [Rayk])
> - having one professional interpreter around all the time
> - name badges with the languages marked on (one is able to speak)
> - reading the reports not in the circle but in small groups for
> translating
> - all plenary sequences (evening news, morning news, convergence etc.) in
> two languages
>
> It worked out fine! The group posted 14 issues, 9 reports were produced
> (all in English!) and in the convergence a detailed plan for the network
> building and a volunteer event in St.Petersburg (Russia) was made. The
> level of self-organization was quite high and the participants managed to
> find their way through it.
>
> Thank you for all your suggestions and comments. It helped very much to
> design the OS. And many thanks to the facilitation-team (Irmi and Rayk) -
> it was fun to work with you!
>
> best regards
> Jo
>
> --
> Jo Toepfer
**************************
----- Original Message -----
From: Harrison Owen
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: Opening Space "in house"
>2. I am curious about OS in multiple languages. I want to introduce this
>in many areas of our company, most of whom are Chinese. We also have
>offices in Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong, and would like to offer a OS for
>people from all areas. I would love to hear stories of multi-language OS.
******************************************
Multiple languages in Open Space is no problem. But it goes a lot easier if
there is at least one common language for most of the people. The way I work
it is that participants are invited to post their issues in the language
they intend to use for the session, and then provide a translation of the
topic in the "common language." So if the session is going to take place in
Japanese, and I don't speak that -- I need to find a partner who speaks
Japanese and will attend the session with me. This sounds like a hassle, but
it is really not. And the search for partners actually accelerates the group
bonding process. People who ask for help from other people are sometimes
disappointed, but usually they find a new friend. Actually the process is
identical with what happens at any good international bar. If I want to talk
to somebody with whom there is no shared language, usually there is somebody
else in the bar who can help. And the next thing you know total strangers
are in conversation. I once had a group of 150 with 27 languages, from 17
countries. Worked perfect.
*******
AND THIS EXCHANGE:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Erich Kolenaty" <e.kolenaty at train.at>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 4:32 AM
Subject: Languages (bilingual)
> Ich danke dir Lisa und auch den anderen,
> und stimme euch natürlich zu: nicht nur die professionellen Dinge sind
> manchmal schwer auszudrücken. Das trifft auch für alle Herzenssachen und
> die
> Landkarten über die Welt zu. Das ist auch in der eigenen Sprache nicht so
> leicht.
>
> Aber: Wenn wir dabei sind eine globale Welt zu werden und wenn wir dabei
> sind eine globale OS-Gemeinschaft zu werden, dann müssen wir auf die Dauer
> die Herausforderung bewältigen, einen tiefen Austausch über die Grenzen
> der
> Sprachen hinweg zu organisieren. Wie immer das funktionieren kann.
>
> Ich habe den OSonOS sehr hilfreich für die Grenzüberschreitung gefunden.
> Ein
> Beispiel: Ich habe mich einer Gruppe angeschlossen, die am Sonntag abend
> Berlin besucht hat. Wir waren auch Leute, aus 7 Ländern, mit 5
> unterschiedlichen Sprachen. Gesprochen haben wir meistens englisch und
> manchmal deutsch. Internationale Treffen unserer Gemsichaft
> sind sehr wertvoll, sie geben mir einen Eindruck, wer andere leute sind,
> wie
> sie klingen, wie sie aussehen und das ist eine wunderbare Hilfe um
> zwischen
> die Zeilen zu spüren, die ich jeden Tag am OS Listserv lese.
>
> Übrigens: im Gebiet der EU-15 sind 49 Sprachen im Gebrauch und es gibt nur
> ein einziges einsprachiges Land (Portugal).
> So könnte man eigentlich erwarten, dass die Europäere Erfahrung im Umgang
> damit haben. Aber wir sind weit von dem Punkt der Fähigkeit des
> Austausches
> als Menschen entfernt, an dem wir sein sollten und wollen.
>
> Aber vieleicht ist das ein wichtiger Beitrag, den die Leute aus Europa
> inOS-International leisten können (den manche Menschen wie John als
> Menschen
> bereits jetzt einbringen): Das Bewußtsein, dass multi-nationaler Austausch
> keine natürliche Sache ist, sondern persönliche Anstrengung und
> Achtsamkeit
> der Gemeinschaft als Ganzes braucht. Der Preis der uns winkt, ist der
> Reichtum der geteilten Vielfalt. Und das ist gelebte OS-Philosophie.
>
> liebe Grüße aus Wien
> Erich
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> I want to thank you Lisa and all the others,
> I ofcourse agree with you that not only the professional stuff sometimes
> is
> hard to express. This is also true for all things of the heart, the spirit
> and sharing how one sees the world. This is already not that easy in your
> own language.
>
> But:
> If this is going to be a global world and if this is going to be a global
> OS
> community, in the long distance run we have to deal with the challenge to
> organize deep sharings across the borders of language. How ever that may
> work.
>
> I found the OSonOS very helpful for crossing borders. For example: I
> joined
> to a party who went to Berlin on sunday evening and we were 8 folks from
> 7
> countries with 5 languages. And talked - mostly english and sometimes
> german.
> International meetings of our community gain great value, they give me an
> impression who other people are, how they sound and shape and this is a
> wonderful aid to feel behind the lines I read on the OS-listserve every
> day.
>
> By the way: In the area of the European Union (15 countries) are 49
> languages in use and there is only one monolingual country (Portugal). So
> somebody could expect that we europeans are very experienced to deal with
> that. But we are far apart from the point of ability to exchange as human
> beings we wanted and needed to be.
>
> May be this is an important contribution folks from europe can bring into
> OS-International (what some people like John bring in as individuals right
> now): the consciousness that multi-national-sharing is not a natural
> thing,
> but needs personal efforts and awareness of the community as a whole.
> The win we can reach is the richness of the sharing of diversity. And this
> is pure OS-philosophy.
>
> greetings from Vienna
>
> Erich
>
>
>
>>
>> I feel the hardest thing to do is to participate in a way
>> you feel expresses things exactly and perfectly, especially
>> when those things are things of the heart, the spirit, and
>> sharing how one sees the world. And indeed, professional
>> and perfect translation is also a big challenge.
>
>>
>> It takes a lot of courage and a lot of faith (in others and
>> in one's self) to participate as fully as possible in a
>> discussion in a different language.
>>
>> You are amazing.
>>
>> Warm greetings to you from Berkeley, California, USA,
>>
>> Lisa
>>
>> - - - -
>>
>> > Erich Kolenaty wrote:
>> > >
>> > > May be a translation is helpful:
>> > >
>> > > Yes, it is an extra challenge to think, understand and write in
> another
>> > > language. Especially, when it is not small talk.
>> > > Professional questions and answers always need precise descriptions
> and
>> > > wordings. This is not always easiliy to go
>> > > for me in english and sometimes has been a bar to participate in
> discussion.
>> > > But I am learning continouisly, thats the good news.
>> > >
>> > > And it makes me feel good, when sometimes somebody notices and
> appreciates
>> > > that people from other languages have to take a little hurdle to be
> there.
>> > > (this might be one of the reasons why so few folks e.g. from south of
> europe
>> > > are on the list)
>> > >
>> > > thank you and greetings to everybody from Vienna
>> > > Erich
>>
>> *
>> *
**************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kaliya Hamlin" <kaliya at mac.com>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 4:18 AM
Subject: [OSLIST] Mutli-LIngual and non-primary Language Open space
> Hi Open Space LIst,
>
> I finally have joined. At Nexus for change many open space practitioners
> were talking about how wonderfully supportive this list was of their
> practice and a real community.
>
> Part of the reason I joined is that I have a question that was not
> answerable easily by searching the web. I would like to know about
> expereinces and learning about open space where multiple Languages are
> used and perhaps more importantly where many of the participants don't
> have the primary language the Open Space is being run in don't have it as
> their first language.
>
> I have brought Open Space into the stodgy standards world of the
> International Telecommunications Union's Focus Group on Identity
> Management. Although we have used it at one of the meetings there are
> those who remain unconvinced of its potential and who are insisting that
> it "doesn't work" for non-english as a first language speakers. They are
> apparently suggesting that when we have our meeting in Japan that the Open
> Space be run in Japaness to prove to me that it doesn't work for these
> people. (Like sitting in a room for 8 hours a day reviewing english
> written Microsoft Word documents projected on the front wall 'works' to
> deal successfully with the complex world of telecommunications standards
> and regulations world wide.)
>
> What I would like to know from people is how do you create a supportive
> space for groups where many of the participants don't have english as a
> primary language?
>
> What are the guildelines/suggestions to put forward to both the first
> language speakers?
> What are the guidlelines/suggesitons put forward to the as a second (or
> third..) language participatnts.
>
> Any other advise you have about this would be welcome.
>
> Regards,
> =Kaliay
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
More information about the OSList
mailing list