A Quiet Time

Mon Mar 6 05:06:56 PST 2006

My goodness what an excellent thread! I'm no longer sure how it started but 
no matter; much warm and wise sharing felt and received from many different 
traditions (can one call Wilber a tradition yet?).
Thank you.
In the touching conversation on touching, I don't think I saw the word 
"invite" anywhere. I seem to recall that way back in the almost-early days 
when I took the training from the Harrison/Birgitt/Larry trio, the point was 
repetitively made about the importance of making it explicit that folks were 
"invited" to do things (holding hands in the closing circle among them) and 
were free to not participate. I know this does not change the sense or 
sensitivities of the discussion, and I suspect we all do it, but I just 
wanted to, well, make it explicit...
Winston

*
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>From  Mon Mar  6 08:51:37 2006
Message-Id: <MON.6.MAR.2006.085137.0500.>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:51:37 -0500
Reply-To: birgitt at dalarinternational.com
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: Birgitt Williams <birgitt at dalarinternational.com>
Organization: Dalar International Consultancy
Subject: Re: whatever one says,people do whatever they want to do anyway
In-Reply-To: <001d01c640f2$25e166b0$4201a8c0 at FSC491219051008>
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Hi Filiz,
In order to be able to assist you in your thinking, and you have said
you wish practical help, there is more information that I would like to
have from you.
=20
1.	What was the role of the sponsor? The sponsor actually opens the
space for the facilitator to facilitate the OST meeting, so was there
something that could have been different in what the sponsor said in the
invitation, in the opening, in the =91givens=92 for the meeting.
2.	Did you have an outline (agenda) that people could see for the
meeting...either as handouts in their chairs, or up on a wall? This of
course does not have agenda items but has the outline indicating things
like session times, time for action planning and so on.
3.	Did you use two different report forms? One for capturing the
discussion from the OS sessions and one for the action planning?
4.	Did Funda, in her opening, outline the process for the whole
time that gave validation to the action planning and why?
5.	How much time did you allow for the action planning part?
6.	Did they have a book of proceedings to do the action planning
from?
=20
If you would kindly answer the above, I am willing to make some
suggestions. In the corporate world particularly, having a clear action
plan coming out of investing in a meeting is seen as critical. And yes,
although we cannot nor would we want to affect the content, there are
simple things to do to increase the success of action planning.
=20
Having said this, everything is as it should be....so there is nothing
that you did wrong. Whatever happens...
=20
Blessings,
Birgitt
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Filiz
Telek
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:47 AM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: whatever one says,people do whatever they want to do anyway
=20
This is the newest principle for OS that Funda and I are =
proposing=85after
our experience in OS yesterday :-)
=20
Ok, just around the days when we have been contemplating on =93whatever
happens is the only thing that could have=94, I will share with you a
brief reflection on this open space we experienced, a first for me,
Funda and for all who attended=85and perhaps dwell a little bit on what
could we have done different or what can we do different in the =
future=85
=20
Funda Oral, whom you know from this list, facilitated this meeting and I
tried to support her to my capability. This was the first time we opened
space together in Turkey, so it was quite a historical day for all of
us, considering the work Funda has done in the last years to invite
people to open space in Turkey=85
=20
Today we co-hosted a group of people who are passionate about improving
the public transport in Istanbul. Their immediate focus was saving the
traditional ferryboats of Istanbul which are one of the important
symbols of Istanbul that reflects the spirit of this city. Saving
because the municipality wanted to get rid of them to bring in new and
fast sea buses. So by taking a stand on the maintenance of these
ferries, this group actually is one of the real citizens=92 movements in
Turkey that has some effect on local decision making=85the theme of
today=92s meeting was to come up with activities for 2006 to improve sea
transport and saving the ferries=85
=20
All in all it went well with a little more chaos than usual=85groups =
were
formed, exciting conversations were held, actions were proposed=85and
Funda did a great job in opening the space=85
However convergence was a little disaster in my view, and good news is
that I was hosting it :-)  there could be many reasons for this but I
tend to blame myself or the group for the outcome. When it was
convergence time, we re-opened space where I invited people to announce
the actions they want to take. By the time I could finish my sentence,
some people had left the room, some wondering around, some chatting to
the person next to them, two people shouting at each other=85I invited =
the
group about 3 times and nothing changed. At the end, someone read some
proposed actions from the previous session, put them on the floor and
people who were interested signed up. By that time half of the group had
left already. Unfortunately we didn=92t even have a closing, because we
couldn=92t maintain the energy of the group anymore. The meeting =
finished
an hour earlier than the proposed time.
=20
Now, whatever happens is the only thing that could have. But for my own
sanity, I need some practical help here. Because this seems to be the
general group dynamics over here and I am having a hard time as a
facilitator to deal with it. Not only it makes me feel incompetent, it
makes me also lose hope at certain points about being able to do any
useful work over here=85
My main challenges are that people don=92t listen well, they don=92t
concentrate during a meeting, so they miss and don=92t follow the
instructions and the groups are not able to converge. In all of the
meetings I attended so far, I found myself watching in awe how people
disappear before we are able to say, so this meeting is finished. And
naturally there is no conclusion. I then feel all the energy that was
built up during a meeting gets wasted before we could channel it into
something constructive=85
=20
I have been told that being young and female does not help in Turkish
culture. I do not accept this as an explanation.=20
I would like to know whether any of you worked in a similar cultural
setting where it was difficult to shift the group energy beyond the
individual to the collective, where listening and focusing was a
challenge=85and people proceeded the way they wanted to. To which degree
do you or do you not interfere? What do you do, when you propose a step
and one (or more) participant suggests something else before your next
step? (this happens so often here, drives me crazy, even if you say no,
we cant really do that, people go ahead anyway) What are the conditions
for being able to converge a group whose energy is all over the place?
=20
I am really interested in improving the flow under the conditions I
described above and I am asking for practical suggestions=85
Thank you!=20
=20
=20
f i l i z=20
approach love and cooking with reckless abundance!
HYPERLINK "http://www.barakam.blogspot.com/"www.barakam.blogspot.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.bugday.org/"www.bugday.org=20
=20
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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi <span =
class=3DSpellE>Filiz</span>,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>In order to be able to assist you =
in your
thinking, and you have said you wish practical help, there is more =
information
that I would like to have from you.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<ol style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in' start=3D1 type=3D1>
 <li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in'><font
     size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
     Arial'>What was the role of the sponsor? The sponsor actually opens =
the
     space for the facilitator to facilitate the OST meeting, so was =
there
     something that could have been different in what the sponsor said =
in the
     invitation, in the opening, in the =91givens=92 for the =
meeting.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
 <li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in'><font
     size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
     Arial'>Did you have an outline (agenda) that people could see for =
the
     meeting...either as handouts in their chairs, or up on a wall? This =
of
     course does not have agenda items but has the outline indicating =
things
     like session times, time for action planning and so =
on.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
 <li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in'><font
     size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
     Arial'>Did you use two different report forms? One for capturing =
the discussion
     from the OS sessions and one for the action =
planning?<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
 <li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in'><font
     size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
     Arial'>Did Funda, in her opening, outline the process for the whole =
time
     that gave validation to the action planning and =
why?<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
 <li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in'><font
     size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
     Arial'>How much time did you allow for the action planning =
part?<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
 <li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in'><font
     size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
     Arial'>Did they have a book of proceedings to do the action =
planning from?<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
</ol>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

If you would kindly answer the =
above, I am
willing to make some suggestions. In the corporate world particularly, =
having a
clear action plan coming out of investing in a meeting is seen as =
critical. And
yes, although we cannot nor would we want to affect the content, there =
are
simple things to do to increase the success of action =
planning.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

Having said this, everything is as =
it
should be....so there is nothing that you did wrong. Whatever =
happens...<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Blessings,<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Birgitt<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> OSLIST
[mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Filiz Telek<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 06, =
2006 2:47
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> whatever one =
says,people
do whatever they want to do anyway</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>This is the newest =
principle for OS
that Funda and I are proposing=85after our experience in OS yesterday =
</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DWingdings><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;
mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;mso-hansi-font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-font-fam=
ily:
Arial;mso-char-type:symbol;mso-symbol-font-family:Wingdings'><span
style=3D'mso-char-type:symbol;mso-symbol-font-family:Wingdings'>J</span><=
/span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Ok, just around the days =
when we
have been contemplating on =93whatever happens is the only thing that =
could
have=94, I will share with you a brief reflection on this open space we
experienced, a first for me, Funda and for all who attended=85and =
perhaps
dwell a little bit on what could we have done different or what can we =
do
different in the future=85<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<st1:PersonName
ProductID=3D"Funda Oral" st=3D"on">Funda =
Oral</st1:PersonName>, whom you
know from this list, facilitated this meeting and I tried to support her =
to my
capability. This was the first time we opened space together in =
<st1:country-region
st=3D"on">Turkey</st1:co=
untry-region>, so it was
quite a historical day for all of us, considering the work Funda has =
done in
the last years to invite people to open space in =
<st1:place
st=3D"on"><st1:country-region st=3D"on">Turkey</st1:co=
untry-region></st1:place>=85<o:p></o:p>=

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

Today we co-hosted a group =
of people
who are passionate about improving the public transport in =
<st1:place
st=3D"on"><st1:City st=3D"on">Istanbul</st1:City></st1:place>. Their =
immediate
focus was saving the traditional ferryboats of <st1:City =
st=3D"on">Istanbul</st1:=
City> which are
one of the important symbols of <st1:place =
st=3D"on"><st1:City
 st=3D"on">Istanbul</st1:City></st1:place> that reflects the spirit =
of this
city. Saving because the municipality wanted to get rid of them to bring =
in new
and fast sea buses. So by taking a stand on the maintenance of these =
ferries,
this group actually is one of the real citizens=92 movements in Turkey =
that
has some effect on local decision making=85the theme of today=92s
meeting was to come up with activities for 2006 to improve sea transport =
and
saving the ferries=85<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>All in all it went well =
with a
little more chaos than usual=85groups were formed, exciting =
conversations
were held, actions were proposed=85and Funda did a great job in opening =
the
space=85<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

However convergence was a =
little
disaster in my view, and good news is that I was hosting it =
J<=
/span>  there could be many reasons for =
this but
I tend to blame myself or the group for the outcome. When it was =
convergence
time, we re-opened space where I invited people to announce the actions =
they
want to take. By the time I could finish my sentence, some people had =
left the
room, some wondering around, some chatting to the person next to them, =
two
people shouting at each other=85I invited the group about 3 times and
nothing changed. At the end, someone read some proposed actions from the
previous session, put them on the floor and people who were interested =
signed
up. By that time half of the group had left already. Unfortunately we
didn=92t even have a closing, because we couldn=92t maintain the energy
of the group anymore. The meeting finished an hour earlier than the =
proposed
time.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

Now, whatever happens is =
the only
thing that could have. But for my own sanity, I need some practical help =
here.
Because this seems to be the general group dynamics over here and I am =
having a
hard time as a facilitator to deal with it. Not only it makes me feel
incompetent, it makes me also lose hope at certain points about being =
able to
do any useful work over here=85<o:p></o:p>

My main challenges are that =
people
don=92t listen well, they don=92t concentrate during a meeting, so they
miss and don=92t follow the instructions and the groups are not able to
converge. In all of the meetings I attended so far, I found myself =
watching in
awe how people disappear before we are able to say, so this meeting is
finished. And naturally there is no conclusion. I then feel all the =
energy that
was built up during a meeting gets wasted before we could channel it =
into
something constructive=85<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

I have been told that being =
young
and female does not help in Turkish culture. I do not accept this as an
explanation. 
I would like to know whether any of you worked in a similar cultural =
setting
where it was difficult to shift the group energy beyond the individual =
to the
collective, where listening and focusing was a challenge=85and people
proceeded the way they wanted to. To which degree do you or do you not
interfere? What do you do, when you propose a step and one (or more)
participant suggests something else before your next step? (this happens =
so
often here, drives me crazy, even if you say no, we cant really do that, =
people
go ahead anyway) What are the conditions for being able to converge a =
group
whose energy is all over the place?<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I am really interested in =
improving
the flow under the conditions I described above and I am asking for =
practical
suggestions=85<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Thank you! =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><em><b><i =
style=3D'mso-ansi-font-style:
normal'><font size=3D4 color=3Dpurple face=3D"Rage Italic"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
14.0pt;font-family:"Rage =
Italic";mso-bidi-font-family:Vrinda;color:purple;
font-weight:bold;font-style:normal;mso-bidi-font-style:italic;mso-no-proo=
f:
yes'>f i l i z</span></font></i></b></em><em><b><i><font size=3D4 =
color=3Dpurple
face=3DPristina><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Pristina;mso-bidi-font-family:
Vrinda;color:purple;font-weight:bold;mso-no-proof:yes'> =
</span></font></i></b></em><b><i><font
size=3D4 color=3Dpurple face=3DPristina><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
Pristina;mso-bidi-font-family:Vrinda;color:purple;font-weight:bold;font-s=
tyle:
italic;mso-no-proof:yes'><br>
</span></font></i></b><font size=3D2 face=3D"MS Serif"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"MS =
Serif";mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:yes'>approach
love and cooking with reckless abundance!<br>
</span></font><font face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:
yes'><a href=3D"http://www.barakam.blogspot.com/"><font size=3D2><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>www.barakam.blogspot.com</span></font></a><br>=

<a href=3D"http://www.bugday.org/"><font size=3D2><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>www.bugday.org</span></font></a></span></font>=
<font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;mso-no-proof:
yes'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

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