OST and POP (was: The Pros and Cons of OST)

Wed Nov 23 09:32:25 PST 2005

 Hi there,

My name is Phelim McDermott I'm a theatre practitioner with a theatre co. called "improbable"  Three years ago i was awarded a NESTA felowship to research connections between theatre improvisation and Worldwork/processwork techniques. I've done a considerable amount of training in Processwork over the last ten years and have been fascinated by the connections between the group ensemble impro and worldwork. Recently i have got verty excited in OST>  i've attended a number of worldwork events and and am fascintated by open space.. I'm sure there are many connections. I have found worldwork incredibly useful in my work in institutions and with large groups. I went to worldwork in Athens and in the states last year.. i'm hoping to get to Australia in april where it happens next.

There are some extraordinary challenging things about worldwork or POP sometimes it looks like chaos sometimes like some of the best theatre I've ever seen. I think that the commitment to explore hotspots in worldwork makes for an intense crucible which perhaps doesnt happen in the same way in OST but i'm a naive in that territory until i have done our open space event in January.. I'm so intereested that there are people wishing to make connections between these two paradigms. my guess is that visiting these different worlds informs the other and they are like parallel worlds... a bit like the performance/workshop worlds which exist in parallel  feeding  essential things to each other. Once you've been cooked in a worldwork process chaos can become like home.

phelim

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Improbable?s Open Space event
DEVOTED AND DISGRUNTLED

What are we going to do about theatre?
A two-day event, 7th and 8th January 2006, 10am ? 7pm
At National Youth Theatre, 443-445 Holloway Road, London, N7 6LW
Email whatarewegoingtodoabouttheatre at improbable.co.uk  for more info and registration details

Improbable, 4th Floor, 43 The Aldwych, London, WC2B 4DN, 020 7240 4556, office at improbable.co.uk, www.improbable.co.uk 

On Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 11:38AM, Allison & Jim Baensch <mbody at iinet.net.au> wrote:

>Hi Holger,
>Well, what to say?
>Thanks for your welcome, and how fantastic to find that you are  
>interested in OST and POP!
>My work (and at the moment it is mainly limited to writing a PhD  
>about it rather than doing it) involves 3 main 'modalities'.
>(I'd prefer a better word than modality to describe these ways of  
>working.)
>They are Ortho-Bionomy (OB), a form of gentle bodywork, Process  
>Oriented Psychology (POP) and (OST).
>
>Another interest of mine for my thesis is in Jean Gebser, who wrote  
>about Integral Consciousness in 1949.
>There is a nice summary of his integral motifs in Gebser's book - The  
>Everpresent Origin (on page 361 of the 1991 translation).
>It's my belief that OB, POP and OST all nestle quite nicely into  
>Gebser's description of the Integral Structure of Consciousness.
>How OST fits with Gebser might be the topic for another post one of  
>these days.
>Sorry for all these abbreviations - I'm trying to be fairly brief -  
>but prefer the whole words.
>
>I reckon all 3 modalities are more alike than they are different from  
>each other in many ways...
>One (OB) works mainly with the body, the next (POP) with the psyche  
>and the third (OST) is used generally with groups.
>All respect nothingness and being in the present moment, without  
>discounting the past and future.
>None is hierarchical or patriarchal in spirit.
>Each modality values deep democracy and appreciates the wisdom of  
>participants at least as much as an outside expert.
>None tries to push the river upstream, but is responsive to feedback  
>(law of 2 feet, when it's over, it's over etc)
>
>I don't feel quite qualified to relate any of these modalities to  
>Quantum Physics, Social Constructivism or Systems Theory in any depth  
>yet.
>But I'd like to reread Harrison's article called Emerging Order in  
>Open Space with Arnold Mindell's book "Quantum Mind" to look further  
>into those issues.
>
>And I am delighted to know of your interest in both OST and POP.
>Time is escaping under my fingers, and I can't write more at present.
>I'm going away tomorrow for a few days and need to pack.
>
>Thank you for your response.
>I feel quite excited about what you have said so far and hope to hear  
>more soon.
>Warm regards,
>Allison.
>
>
>On 23/11/2005, at 6:41 PM, Change Management Toolbook wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:11:54 +1100, Allison & Jim Baensch
>> <mbody at iinet.net.au> wrote:
>>
>>> My second paper at the conference will be about high and low dreams -
>>> a paper related to Process Oriented Psychology (Arnold Mindell and
>>> colleagues).
>>> So I am aware of the benefits of not just focussing on the positives
>>> of a situation.
>>> Thanks for your tasty response,
>>> Allison.
>>
>> Hello Allison,
>>
>> welcome to the list and thanks for your input. I am thrilled of the
>> combination of the two sessions you will host at the conference:
>> Open Space Technology and Process Oriented Psychology.
>>
>> I have been working with OST for a while and just started a couple of
>> months ago to involve myself into POP, attending a training with Max
>> Schupbach. What one usually does is to compare (even if you don't  
>> want to
>> compare), and one starts to compare on different levels. I, for  
>> example,
>> compare the process level of OST gatherings and POP (unfortunately  
>> I have
>> not yet been exposed to an open forum, but rather to 20-40 people
>> processes). More interesting for me, I also compare the meta level.
>>
>> What I found out is that the underlying assumptions and the  
>> foundationss
>> of OST and POP match somehow. We just had an interesting discussion  
>> in the
>> German OS list about the application of Quantum Physics (QP) to social
>> processes. POP refers to QP as its main founding theory. In the  
>> literature
>> on OST, QP has not been mentioned (at least not that I know),  
>> although the
>> principles, particular the "What ever happens..." are deeply  
>> quantum. I
>> like the analogies to QP, but as I have learned from physicists,  
>> they are
>> just analogies / models, and that there is no computer in the world  
>> which
>> can calculate whether quantum effects guide large systems. My main  
>> critic
>> of POP is that they (sometimes) take QP not as a model, but as a  
>> guiding
>> principle for groups. Although that sounds nice, it is not  
>> supported by
>> current physics, which can only prove the validity of QP to atomic and
>> molecular systems.
>>
>> On the other side, OST (and Appreciative Inquiry/AI) have a lot of
>> references to Social Constructivism (SC) and Neurobiology, while  
>> POP has
>> more implicit assumptions of SC.
>>
>> OST, then, has its foundation in Complexity or Chaos Theory os Systems
>> Thinking (ST). I always feel that ST as a guiding principle is  
>> closer to
>> the reality of larger social systems then QP. Maybe it will turn  
>> out that
>> ST is a macro description of QP. POP does not speak in system terms  
>> but in
>> quantum terms.
>>
>> However, the practices and the processes are very different. In  
>> POP, you
>> have the facilitator as an explicit role (which can shift from  
>> person to
>> person, because POP assumes non-local roles). In OST you basically  
>> don't
>> have a facilitator (in German, we speak instead of a "Begleiter",  
>> which
>> means somebody who goes along with somebody or something).
>>
>> Another difference between the two processes is the degree to which
>> conflicts are verbalized and addressed. What I like about OST and  
>> AI is
>> the ease with which tensions are dealt with. As a consequence, people
>> might see that there are alternatives to dealing with problems and
>> conflicts in a violent manner. In POP processes, I have seen a lot of
>> verbal violence, and grief. One can argue wether this is not part  
>> of life,
>> and OST and AI neglect the deep divide which exists between people.  
>> As my
>> spiritual teacher Stephen Gilligan has said: "Life is beautiful, but
>> sometimes it hurts like hell."
>>
>> You see, I have only questions, no answers at all. I am fascinated  
>> of both
>> approaches, and would like to hear from you how do you perceive the
>> difference (and the similarities). If you could send me your  
>> presentation
>> of POP, I would be quite pleased.
>>
>> Go on! With best regards
>> Holger Nauheimer
>>
>> Change Facilitation sro
>> Panenska 3
>> 81103 Bratislava
>> Slovakia
>> http://www.change-management-toolbook.com
>>
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