deep democracy

Chris Macrae wcbn007 at easynet.co.uk
Sun Nov 6 06:08:43 PST 2005


Something I have learnt the hard way is that people who become accomplished at 
a systemic method have a tendency to develop a blindspot to the question: is 
there an even deeper conflict surrounding this which needs intervening by 
connecting with another systemic method?

I have not actually experienced a HO facilitated OS. However, I have 
repeatedly experienced an OS weakness facilitated by others with big change 
networking ambitions. It comes near the final day. Let's say projects have 
been mobilised on the wall and it appears that everyone who wants to go 
forward is both in at least one activation project and that there will be 
cross-fertilisation across projects...

but then the follow through activation evaporates

my guess is that deep demoracy applied at this stage late in the 3rd day might 
uncover reasons why people appear to be going along with the democracy of the 
solution of passing through the conflict barrier together, but are not 
actually going to continue the work when comes down to being separtaed from 
the cultural spirit of being in the communal 3 days


chris macrae wcbn007 at easynet.co.uk dc number 301 881 1655
http://clubofdc.blogspot.com -can we connect systemic conflict resolution 
methods to scale up for global change at every locality where human beings 
need it most

http://gravity200.blogspot.com can we marry 200 networks for change together -
so that being in ones opens doors to being in all?

htp://deathofdistance.blogspot.com why multiple double revolutions of networks 
is globally * locally beyond the ken of 20th C systems*peoples, and so an 
urgent crisis of opportunity & risk (multiple revolutions include: real-life* 
virtual life- beyond national responsibilities for sustaining global*local; 
revolution idn economy of communications*transport; boundary silos -most 
corruption compounds at the gap between 2 organisational systems not just 
within one yet network connectivity imposes systems*systems as the core lever 
compounding wealth*health)

Quoting Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>:

 Raffi Wrote: "I continue to be intrigued/nagged by the thought that there is
 something beyond open space that is waiting to be born. It has something to
 do with bringing together open space and processwork. In more passionate
 moments I refer to the Conscious Open Sleep Organization. If there is
 something to this, it'll come later. I don't have a question here yet."
 
 Ah Raffi -- you set me to thinking. But first, a story. I recently went to
 Japan (back yesterday -- or was it tomorrow? I think I lost a day!) I told
 my hosts that I would come under one condition: That I meet with a Zen
 Master. They agreed, and following the formal program, we went to the seek
 the Master. As fate would have it, the Master had been called away, and so
 we sat, my host and I. But as it turned out, my host was the Master. And so
 we talked. From all of this I learned that when you seek something, you will
 find Nothing -- but it is in that Nothing that the thing you seek resides. 
 
 And now the thought: In open space there is neither before nor after -- only
 Now. In a word, you are already there!
 
 Maybe I should go back to Japan? :-)
 
 
 Harrison  
 
 NEW EMAIL ADDRESS!!!!
 hhowen at verizon.net
 
 Harrison Owen
 7808 River Falls Drive
 Potomac, Maryland   20845
 Phone 301-365-2093
 Skype hhowen
 
 Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com 
 Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
 Personal website www.ho-image.com 
 OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives
 Visit: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
 
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Raffi
 Aftandelian
 Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 5:24 PM
 To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
 Subject: Re: deep democracy
 
 Dear Chris,
 
 Thank you for reviving this thread. Esther I had no idea that you has
 contact with Deep Democracy (or did I forget?). I also started a Mindell
 thread a few years back. And from what I can see those previous
 threads didn't take me to any particular new place.
 
 It is helpful to know that Anne has some knowledge of Mindell, too.
 (hi Anne!)
 
 A year ago I spent a few hours trying to find out what body of experience
 there is in the application of the Open Forum tool (Mindell's
 invention). I signed on to the process work listservs posted a few
 messages, got a few responses, learned even of a dissertation on the
 application of this instrument (which I would like to purchase).
 
 I still feel the chapter on the connection between Open Forum (Deep
 Democracy) and Open Space is unfinished.
 
 I had had the fortune of participating in two of Arnold Mindell's
 workshops. The biggest issue with Open Forum work is that is not a
 skill that is easily acquired. Arnold says essentially the same as
 Harrison: "read the book (Deep Democracy) and do an Open Forum." If it
 was that easy, perhaps we'd see a lively Open Forum listserv with almost 500
 subscribers, an openforumworldmap.org site, a yearly OpenForum on OpenForum
 None of that exists. What is the learning here?
 
 And yet processwork continues to intrigue me.
 
 I continue to be intrigued/nagged by the thought that there is
 something beyond open space that is waiting to be born. It has
 something to do with bringing together open space and processwork. In
 more passionate moments I refer to the Conscious Open Sleep
 Organization. If there is something to this, it'll come later. I don't
 have a question here yet.
 
 Chris, I enjoy your posts very much and follow with interest.
 
 Warmly,
 from where the ducks continue to quack outside my window,
 raffi
 
 p.s. On Monday, Kiev is holding its second stammtisch. If you'd like
 to send a warm pre-stammtisch greetings, you can send it to Lada
 Kanevska <lada at uccg.org.ua> Unfortunately, I won't be there : (
                           mailto:raffi at bk.ru
 
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>From  Sun Nov  6 09:39:16 2005
Message-Id: <SUN.6.NOV.2005.093916.0500.>
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 09:39:16 -0500
Reply-To: hhowen at verizon.net
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
Organization: HH Owen and Co.
Subject: Re: deep democracy
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Chris wrote: "but then the follow through activation evaporates."

My guess is that this has less to do with the "method" and rather more to do
with the people. A lot of things happen on the way to the future. Ideas
which seemed good at the time, pale on reflection. Ideas which seemed
marginal or off the table emerge at a later date through the network
established in OS.. . . In a word, people will do what they will do, and no
"method" on earth (that I know of) will make that different. My only hope
(and expectation) is that folks will do (not do) what they really want to
do, and in Open Space they have that freedom and responsibility.

Harrison

NEW EMAIL ADDRESS!!!!
hhowen at verizon.net

Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Drive
Potomac, Maryland   20845
Phone 301-365-2093
Skype hhowen

Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com 
Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
Personal website www.ho-image.com 
OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives
Visit: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html



-----Original Message-----
From: wcbn007 at easynet.co.uk [mailto:wcbn007 at easynet.co.uk] 
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 9:09 AM
To: hhowen at verizon.net
Cc: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: deep democracy

Something I have learnt the hard way is that people who become accomplished
at 
a systemic method have a tendency to develop a blindspot to the question: is

there an even deeper conflict surrounding this which needs intervening by 
connecting with another systemic method?

I have not actually experienced a HO facilitated OS. However, I have 
repeatedly experienced an OS weakness facilitated by others with big change 
networking ambitions. It comes near the final day. Let's say projects have 
been mobilised on the wall and it appears that everyone who wants to go 
forward is both in at least one activation project and that there will be 
cross-fertilisation across projects...

but then the follow through activation evaporates

my guess is that deep demoracy applied at this stage late in the 3rd day
might 
uncover reasons why people appear to be going along with the democracy of
the 
solution of passing through the conflict barrier together, but are not 
actually going to continue the work when comes down to being separtaed from 
the cultural spirit of being in the communal 3 days


chris macrae wcbn007 at easynet.co.uk dc number 301 881 1655
http://clubofdc.blogspot.com -can we connect systemic conflict resolution 
methods to scale up for global change at every locality where human beings 
need it most

http://gravity200.blogspot.com can we marry 200 networks for change together
-
so that being in ones opens doors to being in all?

htp://deathofdistance.blogspot.com why multiple double revolutions of
networks 
is globally * locally beyond the ken of 20th C systems*peoples, and so an 
urgent crisis of opportunity & risk (multiple revolutions include:
real-life* 
virtual life- beyond national responsibilities for sustaining global*local; 
revolution idn economy of communications*transport; boundary silos -most 
corruption compounds at the gap between 2 organisational systems not just 
within one yet network connectivity imposes systems*systems as the core
lever 
compounding wealth*health)

Quoting Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>:

 Raffi Wrote: "I continue to be intrigued/nagged by the thought that there
is
 something beyond open space that is waiting to be born. It has something to
 do with bringing together open space and processwork. In more passionate
 moments I refer to the Conscious Open Sleep Organization. If there is
 something to this, it'll come later. I don't have a question here yet."
 
 Ah Raffi -- you set me to thinking. But first, a story. I recently went to
 Japan (back yesterday -- or was it tomorrow? I think I lost a day!) I told
 my hosts that I would come under one condition: That I meet with a Zen
 Master. They agreed, and following the formal program, we went to the seek
 the Master. As fate would have it, the Master had been called away, and so
 we sat, my host and I. But as it turned out, my host was the Master. And so
 we talked. From all of this I learned that when you seek something, you
will
 find Nothing -- but it is in that Nothing that the thing you seek resides. 
 
 And now the thought: In open space there is neither before nor after --
only
 Now. In a word, you are already there!
 
 Maybe I should go back to Japan? :-)
 
 
 Harrison  
 
 NEW EMAIL ADDRESS!!!!
 hhowen at verizon.net
 
 Harrison Owen
 7808 River Falls Drive
 Potomac, Maryland   20845
 Phone 301-365-2093
 Skype hhowen
 
 Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com 
 Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
 Personal website www.ho-image.com 
 OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives
 Visit: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
 
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Raffi
 Aftandelian
 Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 5:24 PM
 To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
 Subject: Re: deep democracy
 
 Dear Chris,
 
 Thank you for reviving this thread. Esther I had no idea that you has
 contact with Deep Democracy (or did I forget?). I also started a Mindell
 thread a few years back. And from what I can see those previous
 threads didn't take me to any particular new place.
 
 It is helpful to know that Anne has some knowledge of Mindell, too.
 (hi Anne!)
 
 A year ago I spent a few hours trying to find out what body of experience
 there is in the application of the Open Forum tool (Mindell's
 invention). I signed on to the process work listservs posted a few
 messages, got a few responses, learned even of a dissertation on the
 application of this instrument (which I would like to purchase).
 
 I still feel the chapter on the connection between Open Forum (Deep
 Democracy) and Open Space is unfinished.
 
 I had had the fortune of participating in two of Arnold Mindell's
 workshops. The biggest issue with Open Forum work is that is not a
 skill that is easily acquired. Arnold says essentially the same as
 Harrison: "read the book (Deep Democracy) and do an Open Forum." If it
 was that easy, perhaps we'd see a lively Open Forum listserv with almost
500
 subscribers, an openforumworldmap.org site, a yearly OpenForum on OpenForum
 None of that exists. What is the learning here?
 
 And yet processwork continues to intrigue me.
 
 I continue to be intrigued/nagged by the thought that there is
 something beyond open space that is waiting to be born. It has
 something to do with bringing together open space and processwork. In
 more passionate moments I refer to the Conscious Open Sleep
 Organization. If there is something to this, it'll come later. I don't
 have a question here yet.
 
 Chris, I enjoy your posts very much and follow with interest.
 
 Warmly,
 from where the ducks continue to quack outside my window,
 raffi
 
 p.s. On Monday, Kiev is holding its second stammtisch. If you'd like
 to send a warm pre-stammtisch greetings, you can send it to Lada
 Kanevska <lada at uccg.org.ua> Unfortunately, I won't be there : (
                           mailto:raffi at bk.ru
 
 *
 *
 ==========================================================
 OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
 ------------------------------
 To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
 view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
 http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
 
 To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
 http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
 
 *
 *
 ==========================================================
 OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
 ------------------------------
 To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
 view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
 http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
 
 To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
 http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
 




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