leverage points & Control --I wish I had it

Therese Fitzpatrick therese.fitzpatrick at gmail.com
Wed May 25 17:13:27 PDT 2005


I am sending you a comforting hush, Wendy.  Nothing has gone awry.
Whatever has happened is the only thing that could or should.  In the
next moment, something else will happen and then something else again.

A thought experiment, of all things, does not have one right perfect answer.

On 5/24/05, Wendy Farmer-O'Neil <wendy at xe.net> wrote:
>
> Absolutely.  After I posted I realized that prescription was the wrong word
> and would probably twist my intention.  I don't have the right word yet.
> Will try again when I find it.
>
> Again,  we seem to be issuing invitations that are going awry.  My
> invitation was merely to engage in a thought experiment and see what new
> learning or insight it might reveal...Ah, well...
>
>
> Thanks,
> W.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Harrison Owen
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:39 PM
> Subject: Re: leverage points & Control --I wish I had it
>
>
> Wendy -- the principles were not (as is usually the case) worked out in
> advance as prescriptions of what ought to happen. Rather they were
> observations by myself and many others as to what actually did happen. The
> same would be true with the Law. Not an "ought" but an "is."
>
> Is this right? I don't know, but that is the way it happened. Whenever I say
> Principles and Law -- I always smile, because I know it/they are not what
> people usually expect.
>
> Harrison
>
>
> Harrison Owen
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
> Potomac, MD  20854
> USA
> 301-365-2093
> 207-763-3261 (summer)
> website www.openspaceworld.com
> www.openspaceworld.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Wendy Farmer-O'Neil
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 7:58 PM
> Subject: Re: leverage points & Control --I wish I had it
>
> Hmmm...this is interesting...
>
> I guess I made an assumption somewhere along the line here, that the actual
> principles of OST were freedom, self-organization, responsibility, caring,
> maturity, invitation, positivity, productive chaos, self-authorship,
> etc....And that the things we call "The Principles" and stick up on the wall
> are actually just part of the container we create to hold chaos at a
> manageable level for productive self-organization.  Let me clarify a bit...I
> think I am seeing "The Principles" as what we use to inspire confidence in
> the process for the participants...most of whom have never encountered OS
> before and find it a bit unsettling at first.  They need some reassurance
> that what is happening is normal, okay and will work--in order to relax and
> give it try.  In this regard, I think a certain amount of prescription would
> be okay, if not perhaps even necessary?  I may be completely wrong.
>
> This leads me to wondering...How would things change if we just had the Law?
> Not that i'm suggesting this at all...it just makes me go hmmmm....
>
> And yonder bi-furcated post-metamorphosis caterpillar with the ricepaper
> fans causes updrafts of great significance in the Easternmost Orient once
> again...
> Well...that is how Bi-Coloured Python Rock Snakes always talk.
> O Best Beloved...
> Wendy
>
> PS, Harrison:  I'll bring my Kipling to Halifax if you'll bring yours...;-)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Masud Sheikh" <masheikh at COGECO.CA>
> To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 3:40 PM
> Subject: Re: leverage points
>
>
> > Harrison Owen <hhowen at comcast.net> wrote:
> >>Actually, I don't think it is as much of an "assumption" as a blinding
> > flash of the obvious. Those  who came are the only ones there! And the
> > reason they are there is that they cared enough to come. That does not
> > make all those who didn't come bad, immoral, or terrible -- but the fact
> > of the matter is that they didn't care enough to come. Now maybe the next
> > time they would feel differently -- care more. Make the necessary
> > arrangements, or sacrifices!  But for this particular Open Space -- those
> > who care came. And CARING is the sole criteria for entry. That alone makes
> > them the "right people." No Caring -- no come...
> >>
> >>And why would this be true? Well, I think Open Space is all about passion
> > and responsibility. And if you don't CARE -- no passion, and little hope
> > of accepting responsibility. Who on earth would take responsibility for
> > something they don't care about?
> >>
> > We have been through this before, Harrison. I find it judgmental (being
> > judgmental myself, I know judgment when I see it :-)) How about changing
> > it to: "Those who felt invited, came"?
> > Masud
> >
> > *
> > *
> >
> ==========================================================
> > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > ------------------------------
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> > view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
> >
> > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.16 - Release Date: 24/05/2005
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.16 - Release Date: 24/05/2005
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> ------------------------------
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>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> * *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe,
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>
>  ________________________________
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.16 - Release Date: 24/05/2005
>
>
>  * *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe,
> unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.16 - Release Date: 24/05/2005
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
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> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
>
>


--
Warmly,
Therese Fitzpatrick, MSOD, JD

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>From  Thu May 26 02:01:07 2005
Message-Id: <THU.26.MAY.2005.020107.0100.>
Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 02:01:07 +0100
Reply-To: mherman at globalchicago.net
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: Michael Herman <mjherman at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: leverage points & Control --I wish I had it
In-Reply-To: <804ca7d205052517135769558e at mail.gmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

sometimes when it seems that i have some extra time and space in
myself or in the room when i 'm doing the opening briefing, i
sometimes note for participants that the principles were not designed
in advance, 'not prescription, but 'description,' i sometimes say,
'based on the experience of folks who'd been using this approach for
some time.'

and yet it is also true that i am writing, scripting these posters adn
principles before these people, my audience in taht moment, have
actually had that experience.  so easy it is for me to forget how
strange these things must still sound to normal folks, 'real humans,'
as harrison sometimes says.  <grin>  and if i didn't think they gave
some shape to the space, then i might feel better about leaving them
off.  sometimes i do leave them off, but mostly i don't .

this also reminds me that not so long ago, harrison asked about not
doing one more thing, and we spent some time stripping away the few
bits that make open space 'a thing we do.'  if i remember right,
mostly we agreed that we could 'not do' just about everything, but we
dare not leave out the Law.

michaelh




On 5/26/05, Therese Fitzpatrick <therese.fitzpatrick at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am sending you a comforting hush, Wendy.  Nothing has gone awry.
> Whatever has happened is the only thing that could or should.  In the
> next moment, something else will happen and then something else again.
>
> A thought experiment, of all things, does not have one right perfect answer.
>
> On 5/24/05, Wendy Farmer-O'Neil <wendy at xe.net> wrote:
> >
> > Absolutely.  After I posted I realized that prescription was the wrong word
> > and would probably twist my intention.  I don't have the right word yet.
> > Will try again when I find it.
> >
> > Again,  we seem to be issuing invitations that are going awry.  My
> > invitation was merely to engage in a thought experiment and see what new
> > learning or insight it might reveal...Ah, well...
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > W.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Harrison Owen
> > To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> >
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: leverage points & Control --I wish I had it
> >
> >
> > Wendy -- the principles were not (as is usually the case) worked out in
> > advance as prescriptions of what ought to happen. Rather they were
> > observations by myself and many others as to what actually did happen. The
> > same would be true with the Law. Not an "ought" but an "is."
> >
> > Is this right? I don't know, but that is the way it happened. Whenever I say
> > Principles and Law -- I always smile, because I know it/they are not what
> > people usually expect.
> >
> > Harrison
> >
> >
> > Harrison Owen
> > 7808 River Falls Dr.
> > Potomac, MD  20854
> > USA
> > 301-365-2093
> > 207-763-3261 (summer)
> > website www.openspaceworld.com
> > www.openspaceworld.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Wendy Farmer-O'Neil
> > To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 7:58 PM
> > Subject: Re: leverage points & Control --I wish I had it
> >
> > Hmmm...this is interesting...
> >
> > I guess I made an assumption somewhere along the line here, that the actual
> > principles of OST were freedom, self-organization, responsibility, caring,
> > maturity, invitation, positivity, productive chaos, self-authorship,
> > etc....And that the things we call "The Principles" and stick up on the wall
> > are actually just part of the container we create to hold chaos at a
> > manageable level for productive self-organization.  Let me clarify a bit...I
> > think I am seeing "The Principles" as what we use to inspire confidence in
> > the process for the participants...most of whom have never encountered OS
> > before and find it a bit unsettling at first.  They need some reassurance
> > that what is happening is normal, okay and will work--in order to relax and
> > give it try.  In this regard, I think a certain amount of prescription would
> > be okay, if not perhaps even necessary?  I may be completely wrong.
> >
> > This leads me to wondering...How would things change if we just had the Law?
> > Not that i'm suggesting this at all...it just makes me go hmmmm....
> >
> > And yonder bi-furcated post-metamorphosis caterpillar with the ricepaper
> > fans causes updrafts of great significance in the Easternmost Orient once
> > again...
> > Well...that is how Bi-Coloured Python Rock Snakes always talk.
> > O Best Beloved...
> > Wendy
> >
> > PS, Harrison:  I'll bring my Kipling to Halifax if you'll bring yours...;-)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Masud Sheikh" <masheikh at COGECO.CA>
> > To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 3:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: leverage points
> >
> >
> > > Harrison Owen <hhowen at comcast.net> wrote:
> > >>Actually, I don't think it is as much of an "assumption" as a blinding
> > > flash of the obvious. Those  who came are the only ones there! And the
> > > reason they are there is that they cared enough to come. That does not
> > > make all those who didn't come bad, immoral, or terrible -- but the fact
> > > of the matter is that they didn't care enough to come. Now maybe the next
> > > time they would feel differently -- care more. Make the necessary
> > > arrangements, or sacrifices!  But for this particular Open Space -- those
> > > who care came. And CARING is the sole criteria for entry. That alone makes
> > > them the "right people." No Caring -- no come...
> > >>
> > >>And why would this be true? Well, I think Open Space is all about passion
> > > and responsibility. And if you don't CARE -- no passion, and little hope
> > > of accepting responsibility. Who on earth would take responsibility for
> > > something they don't care about?
> > >>
> > > We have been through this before, Harrison. I find it judgmental (being
> > > judgmental myself, I know judgment when I see it :-)) How about changing
> > > it to: "Those who felt invited, came"?
> > > Masud
> > >
> > > *
> > > *
> > >
> > ==========================================================
> > > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > > ------------------------------
> > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> > > view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> > > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
> > >
> > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> > > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.16 - Release Date: 24/05/2005
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.16 - Release Date: 24/05/2005
> >
> > *
> > *
> > ==========================================================
> > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > ------------------------------
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> > view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
> >
> > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> > * *
> > ==========================================================
> > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe,
> > unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> > oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To
> > learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> >
> >  ________________________________
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.16 - Release Date: 24/05/2005
> >
> >
> >  * *
> > ==========================================================
> > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe,
> > unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> > oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To
> > learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.16 - Release Date: 24/05/2005
> >
> > *
> > *
> > ==========================================================
> > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > ------------------------------
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> > view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
> >
> > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Warmly,
> Therese Fitzpatrick, MSOD, JD
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>


--

Michael Herman Associates
http://www.michaelherman.com
...inviting organizations into action

Small Change News Network
http://www.smallchangenews.org
...blogging giving flourishing

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