Fw: an attempt at an answer

[Funda Oral]

i wanted to send it to the list
----- Original Message -----
From: "Funda Oral" <fundaoral at ttnet.net.tr>
To: "Raffi Aftandelian" <raffi at bk.ru>
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: an attempt at an answer


> Dear Raffi,
>
> I guess we (you and me) subscribed to the list at similar time. I also
> have BA degree like you. First OSonOS for both of us was last year.
> You are more experienced than me in OST but i think i also use OST in
daily
> life somehow. I think i am a little bit older than you and i usually
> feel like i understand you.
>
> But i don't understand what is the problem here, now . What do you expect
> from the
> OSList and OS Community....How it should be according to you ? I also
think
> about that but i am not angry with anybody.
>
> Whatever has happened was the only thing that could have till now
>
> But now, maybe needs have changed, and we should discuss again but i
> personally
> don't wish the sungroups to be created for something that should interest
> many people here.
>
> If it is not so, if not many people in the list are not willing, do not
need
> to discuss
> somethings about OST Community (needs and opportunities etc). Then i guess
> this is not the right time or right place.
>
> But tell me if you and me can cooperate doing an OST in Armenia? Maybe
NGO's
> can help us....next week i am going to a tour on the eastern borders of
> Turkey, we
> will visit Armenian border and Ruins of Ani ( do you know that place?)
>
> Anyway, let's see
>
> Funda
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raffi Aftandelian" <raffi at bk.ru>
> To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 10:12 AM
> Subject: an attempt at an answer
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Harrison, you lovingly/mockingly (I imagine) asked a few days back that
> you were
> > almost afraid to ask what I think the next paradigm might be.
> >
> > I am going to give this some more thinking before phrasing what I
> > think the answer is. I have a sense as to what the next two paradigms
> > on the learning curve (which as a model of course, has its limits)
> > are. I also have the sense that once the 5th paradigm comes up, the
> > 6th one will come up in 7 years after the 5th one.
> >
> > Nevertheless, it gives us a framework. But, maybe a better forum for
> > this discussion would be Halifax.
> >
> > I can say what some of the ideas are that are flirting with me, what I
> > think is pointing to the answer/question. I put it in slashes because
> > I am not sure what the question is yet.
> >
> > Below are some as yet rough ideas that somehow I think may hint at the
> > question/answer:
> >
> > 1. Yes, OST works very deeply, at the level of essence. But isn't
> > there and hasn't there always been something beyond/before essence?
> > What is beyond/before essence and does OST work with it?
> >
> > 2a. Consciously or unconsciously OST facilitators worldwide have chosen
> > not to be a community in my opinion. What is the price we are paying?
> > Can we who use a method that builds "community" (of course, the answer
> > is still open, we still don't know what community is) and choose not
> > to be a community? Unfortunately, I have not done my homework and have
> > not combed through all the archives to understand what the learning is
> > that the listserv has done here on that score.
> >
> > 2b. To my knowledge we haven't used OST as an approach for sorting out
our
> > internal issues/challenges as a "community" of facilitators.
> >
> > 3. OST works directly only, perhaps, with human consciousness.
> >
> > 4. A while back I believe on this listserv there was a mention of
> > something called Beyond Budgeting. Might that also mean that there is
> > something beyond accounting, the metaphor used in the User Guide?
> >
> > Probably, there is more to come.
> >
> > 5. It is hard to acknowledge that someone with only a BA, who has
> > never done an OST meeting with a group larger than 50 people may
> > indeed have something new to offer.
> >
> > 6. It's really hard to mirror the level of openness who spends much of
> > his time wearing very few masks and to take seriously someone who
> > seems to act like a little boy.
> >
> > I might be terribly wrong in all my thoughts. I don't really care
> > because it's fun, it feels right, and I can live with being wrong.
> >
> > Since, for now, all we've got is open space, the only thing I know how
> > to do is open more space.
> >
> > The original task of this listserv was a forum for people involved or
> > interested in OST.
> >
> > So maybe this conversation is too big for this list. Quite frankly
> > there have been times when the space hasn't been big enough for me,
> > times when I have felt sadness and anger from replies from people
> > offlist. And I know that I am not alone in having had this experience.
> > For me creative process *maybe* I need a place where I don't have to
> > censor what I have to say.
> >
> > While I have never received any hateful emails from people on the
> > listserv, I know of one person who has. And all of those feelings, of
> > course, are fine. Whatever happens...
> >
> > I continue to very much enjoy the list and have trouble imagining that
> > I'll leave it.
> >
> > That said, I am creating an electronic group which I hope will maybe
> > make a contribution to the conversation(s) I am hoping to have. My hope
> > is that the space on that group will be bigger than what we have here
> > right now. And the invitation to participating in it is wide open. And
> > the invitation to helping me think through what the list will do, what
> > it should do, its "given", its purpose is also wide upon.
> >
> > The group's name is "a breathing circle." For now, I see its place as
> > www.smartgroups. I see the group as a forum
> > to discuss anything this is important, important to others, important
> > to oneself. The only given I can think of right now is that none of the
> > messages will ever be deleted, openly accessible archive, just like
> > here. People can choose to write in any language they want to.
> >
> > I am also creating a companion group called "a breathing marketplace."
> > I have a less clear idea of what this group needs to be, but maybe it
> > could be framed as a post-e-bay/post-amazon.com/post-online trading
> > post forum for any kind of trading. Basically, if you have anything to
> > buy or sell, this would be the place. It could be something small, it
> > could be something big. And again for me it's an open space with the
> > same given(s?) as "a breathing circle." Any ideas on breathing
> > marketplace would also be welcome.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Raffi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                           mailto:raffi at bk.ru
> >
> > *
> > *
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