London calling--long reply

Chris Corrigan chris.corrigan at gmail.com
Fri Jul 8 23:02:43 PDT 2005


I don't usually weigh in on stuff like this, and I'm sure others will tan 
your hide for it, but Paul, I have to stand in front of the rash 
generalizations you are making about "Muslims."

The world is a big place. There are Muslims all over the place who denounce 
violence. I personally know dozens of Muslims, Sunni, Shite, Ismaili, Sufi 
who don't give a thought to violence, other than abhoring it like everybody 
else and living life peacefully. I think it is completely unreasonable to 
suggest that people do more than we expect of ourselves. When Muslim 
leadership decries violence their statements are rarely heard above the din 
of those calling for some kind of 

Somewhere the likes of Thomas Friedman thinks there is one big Muslim army 
that can be reigned in by its leaders. We know that the world does not run 
on command and control. We can see just how bad everyone else is at reigning 
in the violent parts of their societies. We in the west deem murder 
shameful, but that hasn't stopped it here or anywhere else.

Anyway...see you in Halifax.

Chris


On 7/8/05, EVERETT813 at aol.com <EVERETT813 at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> Jon,
> 
> Just as it is for me, personally, peace is an inside job. Until the Muslim 
> societies do what Mr. Friedman talks about in the below editorial, we are 
> going to be in this assymetrical warfare, tacitly supported by Muslim's the 
> world over. Remember the Palestinians dancing in the streets when 9/11 
> occurred? That attitude toward the West hasn't gone away. Muslim societies 
> MUST make this terrorism a totally unacceptable response to real or imagined 
> grievances, just as North Ireland's courageous ladies are beginning to do 
> there. Just as the West did when it intervened in Kosovo, on the side of the 
> Muslims there. 
> 
> Peace is an inside job. There is no peace where expansionist Muslim 
> societies rub up against others of different beliefs in many parts of the 
> world. There is a bad litany of religious violence all over Africa, Asia and 
> SE Asia where others believe differently than the Muslim's do. The idea that 
> religion can be spread by violence is what must also be confronted by the 
> Muslim leadership itself. The world is NOT going to become Muslim, no matter 
> how much Osama and his ilk think it should be. Or, the folks in Sudan think 
> it should be. Or, in Indonesia. The rest of the world will fight back. If it 
> gets really grim, tens of millions will die. Huntington's theses will have 
> been proven true, to the great detriment of the world's peoples. 
> 
> So, the solution is for the Muslim folks to decide they aren't the only 
> Way to God around this planet (true of the right wing Christian folk, too, 
> but they aren't out blowing up themselves, initiating slaughters like in 
> Darfur, Nigeria, etc.) and decide that want to live in harmony and peace 
> with their neighbors, who just happen to believe differently than they do. 
> I'm sure the majority of them do want peace and harmony. But, the truth is, 
> many don't. Those who do had better start speaking out and saying so in loud 
> words that have the impact like the fatwa issued against Salman Rushdie, who 
> had to go into hiding to save his life.
> 
> These are un-PC comments, I realize, but they are reflections of what I 
> see in the world where Muslim's dominate or are trying to dominate. The 
> recent reports by the UN, done by Muslim scholars, give strong evidence that 
> some people do see that their societies are the creators of their own 
> problems. Only one example: disenfranchisement of women in nearly all those 
> societies (but not all, I realize, Turkey a real exception) for education, 
> choice of husband, choice of whether or not to have a family, female genital 
> mutilation, etc.; a whole half of their population repressed in ways we 
> can't even comprehend. They detail these kinds of repressive practices. And 
> the lack of societal hope because of their dictatorial governments, which 
> the West has supported and condoned, to their detriment, too.
> 
> Peace is an inside job, everywhere.
> 
> Paul Everett
> 
> July 8, 2005
> *If It's a Muslim Problem, It Needs a Muslim Solution
> *By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
> 
> Yesterday's bombings in downtown London are profoundly disturbing. In 
> part, that is because a bombing in our mother country and closest ally, 
> England, is almost like a bombing in our own country. In part, it's because 
> one assault may have involved a suicide bomber, bringing this terrible 
> jihadist weapon into the heart of a major Western capital. That would be 
> deeply troubling because open societies depend on trust - on trusting that 
> the person sitting next to you on the bus or subway is not wearing dynamite.
> 
> The attacks are also deeply disturbing because when jihadist bombers take 
> their madness into the heart of our open societies, our societies are never 
> again quite as open. Indeed, we all just lost a little freedom yesterday.
> 
> But maybe the most important aspect of the London bombings is this: When 
> jihadist-style bombings happen in Riyadh, that is a Muslim-Muslim problem. 
> That is a police problem for Saudi Arabia. But when Al-Qaeda-like bombings 
> come to the London Underground, that becomes a civilizational problem. Every 
> Muslim living in a Western society suddenly becomes a suspect, becomes a 
> potential walking bomb. And when that happens, it means Western countries 
> are going to be tempted to crack down even harder on their own Muslim 
> populations.
> 
> That, too, is deeply troubling. The more Western societies - particularly 
> the big European societies, which have much larger Muslim populations than 
> America - look on their own Muslims with suspicion, the more internal 
> tensions this creates, and the more alienated their already alienated Muslim 
> youth become. This is exactly what Osama bin Laden dreamed of with 9/11: to 
> create a great gulf between the Muslim world and the globalizing West.
> 
> So this is a critical moment. We must do all we can to limit the 
> civilizational fallout from this bombing. But this is not going to be easy. 
> Why? Because unlike after 9/11, there is no obvious, easy target to 
> retaliate against for bombings like those in London. There are no obvious 
> terrorist headquarters and training camps in Afghanistan that we can hit 
> with cruise missiles. The Al Qaeda threat has metastasized and become 
> franchised. It is no longer vertical, something that we can punch in the 
> face. It is now horizontal, flat and widely distributed, operating through 
> the Internet and tiny cells.
> 
> Because there is no obvious target to retaliate against, and because there 
> are not enough police to police every opening in an open society, either the 
> Muslim world begins to really restrain, inhibit and denounce its own 
> extremists - if it turns out that they are behind the London bombings - or 
> the West is going to do it for them. And the West will do it in a rough, 
> crude way - by simply shutting them out, denying them visas and making every 
> Muslim in its midst guilty until proven innocent.
> 
> And because I think that would be a disaster, it is essential that the 
> Muslim world wake up to the fact that it has a jihadist death cult in its 
> midst. If it does not fight that death cult, that cancer, within its own 
> body politic, it is going to infect Muslim-Western relations everywhere. 
> Only the Muslim world can root out that death cult. It takes a village.
> 
> What do I mean? I mean that the greatest restraint on human behavior is 
> never a policeman or a border guard. The greatest restraint on human 
> behavior is what a culture and a religion deem shameful. It is what the 
> village and its religious and political elders say is wrong or not allowed. 
> Many people said Palestinian suicide bombing was the spontaneous reaction of 
> frustrated Palestinian youth. But when Palestinians decided that it was in 
> their interest to have a cease-fire with Israel, those bombings stopped 
> cold. The village said enough was enough.
> 
> *The Muslim village has been derelict in condemning the madness of 
> jihadist attacks. When Salman Rushdie wrote a controversial novel involving 
> the prophet Muhammad, he was sentenced to death by the leader of Iran. To 
> this day - to this day - no major Muslim cleric or religious body has ever 
> issued a fatwa condemning Osama bin Laden.*
> 
> Some Muslim leaders have taken up this challenge. This past week in 
> Jordan, King Abdullah II hosted an impressive conference in Amman for 
> moderate Muslim thinkers and clerics who want to take back their faith from 
> those who have tried to hijack it. But this has to go further and wider.
> 
> The double-decker buses of London and the subways of Paris, as well as the 
> covered markets of Riyadh, Bali and Cairo, will never be secure as long as 
> the Muslim village and elders do not take on, de-legitimize, condemn and 
> isolate the extremists in their midst.
>  * * ========================================================== 
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-- 

CHRIS CORRIGAN
Consultation - Facilitation
Open Space Technology

Weblog: http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot
Site: http://www.chriscorrigan.com

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