Word from a US soldier
Funda Oral
fundaoral at ttnet.net.tr
Fri Feb 11 14:05:52 PST 2005
because it is not so easy to determine "facts" even for our own experiences....because it's not so easy to judge and decide.
----- Original Message -----
From: Spady's
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: Word from a US soldier
Okayyyyy.......so.........I'm still waiting to hear why it's not a fact. Once again, I have never said that my views are more or less valid than any other. That's why I clarified the items that were my personal opinion from those of fact. I don't get it................................................
----- Original Message -----
From: Esther Ewing
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE..EDU
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: Word from a US soldier
I am always a bit leary of calling something fact. In my experience, the minute I label something as a truth or as fact, I discover that there was more for me to learn about it that would change my perception.
In social constructionism, there exists a principle that by the use of our language, we create our reality and that what we inquire into, impacts what we see.
I am quite naturally biased by my background, my experience and my emotions. So what I see is through the filter of those elements and the filter affects/limits/changes what I see.
Someone from Sweden will see things quite differently (though validly) through their eyes than I, from Canada or you from the United States. There will be times we see things the same way and times when we will not.
I invite all on the list to consider that the way we each see things is just one perception and that the way to open space wider is to own our own views as just that, not more valid or less valid than another's.
To emphasize that it is a fact, not just my opinion.
----- Original Message -----
From: Esther Ewing
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE..EDU
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: Word from a US soldier
Judy:
Why did you put "fact" in quotes?
Chris,
Thanks for all of your insights and great discussions!! Good food for
thought. I, too, agree that this soldier's note is a very small piece of
the whole puzzle.......BUT......I, personally, still conclude (not based
solely on his email but on many other learned factors) that Iraq is a more
"open" society than it was. Do I think it's a great, safe place to live?
Definitely not but at least their society, as a whole, is headed in a better
direction. As HO says, the Iraqi's now have an opportunity to take the
future into their own hands. It is a "fact" that they did not have that
opportunity a few years ago.
Judy
I don't have any great answers for the questions you have at the end of your
message...that's what I'm learning from all of you.
Thanks again for your intriguing words.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Corrigan" <chris.corrigan at gmail.com>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 1:36 AM
Subject: Re: Word from a US soldier
> Finding myself witnessing this exchange, and using it to practice
> asking some questions:..
>
>
>> I agree with you that force was used to open the space which is obviously
>> not an OST principle (but I don't think that means that the space can't
>> be
>> 're-opened'). I disagree that it started with lies but that's a
>> political
>> debate and not one of open space, so I won't go there. As for 'US style
>> Democracy' being the only choice, who's making the decisions as to how
>> Iraq
>> will operate in the future?...the Iraqi's. I think their space is open
>> to
>> let the majority of the Iraqi people decide...that's why the voting
>> turnout
>> was so good. I believe the U.S. will eventually "let go" of the outcome
>> so
>> this doesn't just 'close the space' in my eyes. Again, this difference
>> of
>> opinion can be another political debate and I don't intend to do that in
>> this forum...but will gladly have a constructive debate one-on-one, if
>> you'd
>> like.
>>
>
> The question for me always in working with a community is not "is the
> space open or not?" Space is always open, even a little. The bigger
> question is "how can we open more space here?" If you have a
> situation where there is violent conflict, you need more space. Iraq
> is not a peaceful place at the moment. That tells me that space wants
> to be cleaved open even further. If it is your feeling that the
> United States should not leave Iraq for a while, then we might ask
> "what is the most space we can open here together?" If you think that
> Iraq should be able to do fine on its own, then, as an American you
> might ask "where can we let go some more?" But if, in this situation,
> I really wanted to open space, I might ask "what if we had peace now
> and what if together we created that? What would we have to do to
> stop the violence and sustain a peaceful civil society in Iraq? What
> might our roles be here on the ground to bring peace to life?"
> Something like that. For sure I would encourage talking rather than
> fighting. I believe that most people would choose even banal
> constitutional conferences to killing one another. So if we are still
> killing one another, what is the space that we can open to be bigger
> than the killing impulse?
>
>> Thanks for your kind words about this soldier. I only wanted to share
>> the
>> story to those interested in seeing it from an angle that isn't always
>> easy
>> to get. An even more interesting thing is that this soldier admits that
>> he
>> had doubts about the war before arriving in Iraq. Here's a blurb from
>> another message from him:
>> "When I was first coming over here I had my own inner personal doubts
>> about the war, but after being over here and seeing, hearing,
>> experiencing
>> what I have, it's changed. They never tell you on the media about
>> the
>> nearly 400,000 up-to-date immunizations that children now have, or a
>> continually improving and
>> much needed sewage system, or the fact that school books don't
>> portray
>> Saddam as a God anymore and that girls are now allowed in schools. They
>> don't tell you that the US Army is paying for any damages to civil
>> areas
>> we cause AND the ones the insurgents cause. They only show US soldiers
>> geting
>> killed and beating up prisoners."
> > Sounds more open to me than it was when Saddam was in power....it's no
>> longer a country that has "no choices"...
>> Judy
>
> He's one voice. That's his story. It's great but it's hardly enough
> to give us a picture of life in Iraq. I find that in North America,
> we are often guilty of judging an entire complex situation with a
> sound bite. This type of debate is very common, and supported by our
> culture of punditry, where the goal is to talk and listen to debate
> and win a point rather than to incur deeper understanding of one
> another's positions and interests. And so pundits invoke sound bites
> like this and draw wild conclusions about a situation based on a small
> fact.
>
> Whether that sound bite comes through TV or through a forwarded email
> of a soldier, it's just a small small small piece of story. I can't
> judge the health of civil society in Iraq based on what he said. This
> report tells me that there are 400,000 immunized children, new sewers,
> new text books AND much damage to civil areas and death and beaten up
> prisoners. That sounds complex, messy, full of guesses, rounding
> errors and assmuptions. I can't possibly read that and draw
> conclusions about how open Iraqi society is now compared to three
> years ago. And, I assume, as this soldier showed up in Iraq only
> after the war started, I'd be surprised if he could make an accurate
> comparison either. He can share his story though, and that's fine,
> for what it's worth.
>
> I think it's not easy to say whether THIS Iraq has more or less
> choices than THAT Iraq. Perhaps you have gained the right to vote,
> but you have lost a constant power supply. Perhaps you have immunized
> kids but no husband any more. Maybe you no longer live in fear of the
> secret police, but you are now afraid of being accidentally shot or
> bombed to death. I don't know. I don't believe one man, even if he
> is in the middle of this, can really know how Iraqis feel. I would
> bet that it's not as simple as "it's more open."
>
> Given this report and this curious email exchange on the OSLIST how
> can we practice holding open judgement and suspending conslusions?
> As Open Space facilitators what is our responsibility with respect to
> witnessing this situation?
>
> It's a complex world and these are complex questions.
>
> Chris
>
> -------------------------
> CHRIS CORRIGAN
> Consultation - Facilitation
> Open Space Technology
>
> Weblog: http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot
> Site: http://www.chriscorrigan.com
>
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Esther Ewing
The Change Alliance
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Telephone: 212-661-6024, Fax: 866-296-6712
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Esther Ewing
The Change Alliance
330 East 38th St., Suite 53K
New York, NY 10016, USA
Telephone: 212-661-6024, Fax: 866-296-6712
Assisting organizations to build capability
www.changealliance.com
Certified Panoramic Feedback Distributor (360 instrument)
www.panoramicfeedback.com
Certified Kolbe Distributor: www.kolbe.com
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