Word from a US soldier
Spady's
ejespady at mydurango.net
Fri Feb 11 12:57:02 PST 2005
To emphasize that it is a fact, not just my opinion.
----- Original Message -----
From: Esther Ewing
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: Word from a US soldier
Judy:
Why did you put "fact" in quotes?
Chris,
Thanks for all of your insights and great discussions!! Good food for
thought. I, too, agree that this soldier's note is a very small piece of
the whole puzzle.......BUT......I, personally, still conclude (not based
solely on his email but on many other learned factors) that Iraq is a more
"open" society than it was. Do I think it's a great, safe place to live?
Definitely not but at least their society, as a whole, is headed in a better
direction. As HO says, the Iraqi's now have an opportunity to take the
future into their own hands. It is a "fact" that they did not have that
opportunity a few years ago.
Judy
I don't have any great answers for the questions you have at the end of your
message...that's what I'm learning from all of you.
Thanks again for your intriguing words.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Corrigan" <chris.corrigan at gmail.com>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 1:36 AM
Subject: Re: Word from a US soldier
> Finding myself witnessing this exchange, and using it to practice
> asking some questions:..
>
>
>> I agree with you that force was used to open the space which is obviously
>> not an OST principle (but I don't think that means that the space can't
>> be
>> 're-opened'). I disagree that it started with lies but that's a
>> political
>> debate and not one of open space, so I won't go there. As for 'US style
>> Democracy' being the only choice, who's making the decisions as to how
>> Iraq
>> will operate in the future?...the Iraqi's. I think their space is open
>> to
>> let the majority of the Iraqi people decide...that's why the voting
>> turnout
>> was so good. I believe the U.S. will eventually "let go" of the outcome
>> so
>> this doesn't just 'close the space' in my eyes. Again, this difference
>> of
>> opinion can be another political debate and I don't intend to do that in
>> this forum...but will gladly have a constructive debate one-on-one, if
>> you'd
>> like.
>>
>
> The question for me always in working with a community is not "is the
> space open or not?" Space is always open, even a little. The bigger
> question is "how can we open more space here?" If you have a
> situation where there is violent conflict, you need more space. Iraq
> is not a peaceful place at the moment. That tells me that space wants
> to be cleaved open even further. If it is your feeling that the
> United States should not leave Iraq for a while, then we might ask
> "what is the most space we can open here together?" If you think that
> Iraq should be able to do fine on its own, then, as an American you
> might ask "where can we let go some more?" But if, in this situation,
> I really wanted to open space, I might ask "what if we had peace now
> and what if together we created that? What would we have to do to
> stop the violence and sustain a peaceful civil society in Iraq? What
> might our roles be here on the ground to bring peace to life?"
> Something like that. For sure I would encourage talking rather than
> fighting. I believe that most people would choose even banal
> constitutional conferences to killing one another. So if we are still
> killing one another, what is the space that we can open to be bigger
> than the killing impulse?
>
>> Thanks for your kind words about this soldier. I only wanted to share
>> the
>> story to those interested in seeing it from an angle that isn't always
>> easy
>> to get. An even more interesting thing is that this soldier admits that
>> he
>> had doubts about the war before arriving in Iraq. Here's a blurb from
>> another message from him:
>> "When I was first coming over here I had my own inner personal doubts
>> about the war, but after being over here and seeing, hearing,
>> experiencing
>> what I have, it's changed. They never tell you on the media about
>> the
>> nearly 400,000 up-to-date immunizations that children now have, or a
>> continually improving and
>> much needed sewage system, or the fact that school books don't
>> portray
>> Saddam as a God anymore and that girls are now allowed in schools. They
>> don't tell you that the US Army is paying for any damages to civil
>> areas
>> we cause AND the ones the insurgents cause. They only show US soldiers
>> geting
>> killed and beating up prisoners."
> > Sounds more open to me than it was when Saddam was in power....it's no
>> longer a country that has "no choices"...
>> Judy
>
> He's one voice. That's his story. It's great but it's hardly enough
> to give us a picture of life in Iraq. I find that in North America,
> we are often guilty of judging an entire complex situation with a
> sound bite. This type of debate is very common, and supported by our
> culture of punditry, where the goal is to talk and listen to debate
> and win a point rather than to incur deeper understanding of one
> another's positions and interests. And so pundits invoke sound bites
> like this and draw wild conclusions about a situation based on a small
> fact.
>
> Whether that sound bite comes through TV or through a forwarded email
> of a soldier, it's just a small small small piece of story. I can't
> judge the health of civil society in Iraq based on what he said. This
> report tells me that there are 400,000 immunized children, new sewers,
> new text books AND much damage to civil areas and death and beaten up
> prisoners. That sounds complex, messy, full of guesses, rounding
> errors and assmuptions. I can't possibly read that and draw
> conclusions about how open Iraqi society is now compared to three
> years ago. And, I assume, as this soldier showed up in Iraq only
> after the war started, I'd be surprised if he could make an accurate
> comparison either. He can share his story though, and that's fine,
> for what it's worth.
>
> I think it's not easy to say whether THIS Iraq has more or less
> choices than THAT Iraq. Perhaps you have gained the right to vote,
> but you have lost a constant power supply. Perhaps you have immunized
> kids but no husband any more. Maybe you no longer live in fear of the
> secret police, but you are now afraid of being accidentally shot or
> bombed to death. I don't know. I don't believe one man, even if he
> is in the middle of this, can really know how Iraqis feel. I would
> bet that it's not as simple as "it's more open."
>
> Given this report and this curious email exchange on the OSLIST how
> can we practice holding open judgement and suspending conslusions?
> As Open Space facilitators what is our responsibility with respect to
> witnessing this situation?
>
> It's a complex world and these are complex questions.
>
> Chris
>
> -------------------------
> CHRIS CORRIGAN
> Consultation - Facilitation
> Open Space Technology
>
> Weblog: http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot
> Site: http://www.chriscorrigan.com
>
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Esther Ewing
The Change Alliance
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