OSLIST Digest - 6 Feb 2005 to 7 Feb 2005 (#2005-36)
David Smith
imaginac at bigpond.net.au
Tue Feb 8 20:19:01 PST 2005
Harrison, your essay on The Question is eloquent and raises many, many
thoughts.
The importance of the question - reflections from a former scientist...
When I was doing research in zoology, our seminar program was a central
feature of how our department functioned. And the essence of the seminar was
the questions being asked. I once worked in a lab in Sweden and was
cautioned when about to give my first seminar that "Swedish graduates focus
so much on the quality of the question, rather than the quality of the
answer, that you may find there are no questions asked at all." This was
indeed the case - apparently, culturally, the graduates were actually afraid
of being seen to ask a "dumb question" - to the extent that this fear
effectively paralysed the intellectual process. Coming from my background, I
would have been sure I'd given a lousy seminar, if not for the forewarning!
Another offshoot of my research experiences was that it gradually dawned on
me that the process of scientific inverstigation never actually concluded
with "an answer" - all that emerged were new questions, questions that
couldn't even have been formulated before the first investigation had run
its course. So I agree totally that asking the right question is critical.
In Australia funding for research has gone down a disastrous track. In order
to achieve funding you have to be able to demonstrate a kind of 'business
plan' for your research: by 6 months we will have discovered X, by 12 months
Y etc. Putting it bluntly, you effectively have to know the answer to your
research before you will get a grant. And that means the question being
asked is probably really boring. In such a scenario, the chance of finding
out something truly novel is minimal. Is it the same in the US? or Europe? I
suspect it is and it's rather sad, because in reality the best and most
remarkable discoveries simply cannot be predicted or shoe-horned into a
'business plan'. If they could they wouldn't be remarkable at all.
Which inevitably brings me back to money and ownership.
Knowledge Management is seen as the path to profit. But knowledge, like the
human (or plant or animal) genome should NEVER be locked up or 'owned'. One
of the joys of science used to be the open-ness of information exchange.
Sure, you kept new findings under wraps until they were published but then
they were freely available to anyone anywhere. And the global scientific
community was thereby enriched.
Battening down knowledge is a bit like forcing everyone to drive with the
handbrake on - always. Converting knowledge to commodity-status is probably
inevitable in a capitalist society, but it's actually quite a stupid thing
to do. If anything was guaranteed to put the brakes on true innovation and
discovery, the commodification of knowledge would have to be it.
I did my post-doc fellowship in Vancouver Canada. My boss there was Prof
Dave Randall, a truly gifted and humble zoologist who became a great friend.
He wrote an inscription in one of his books ffor me to ponder:
"Ideas are never the property of one person, because they are born and grow
in discussions with others. Thanks for the discussion(even though you don't
play bridge) - may it continue between us. Dave Randall"
Well, that's my two penneth for today - thanks for the triggers, Harrison.
David
Dr David Smith
BSc(Hons) PhD FRSA
Director, imaginACTION pty ltd
Victoria
AUSTRALIA
imaginac at bigpond.net.au
----- Original Message -----
From: "Automatic digest processor" <LISTSERV at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
To: "Recipients of OSLIST digests" <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 6:00 PM
Subject: OSLIST Digest - 6 Feb 2005 to 7 Feb 2005 (#2005-36)
> There are 9 messages totalling 1991 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. Word from a US soldier
> 2. Open Space and Anti-Americanism
> 3. Latest Ad for the 7th Global Leadership Forum
> 4. The Question (2)
> 5. Is trust a part of open space?
> 6. Open Space & Anti-Americanism (3)
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 12:58:01 +0200
> From: Funda Oral <fundaoral at ttnet.net.tr>
> Subject: Re: Word from a US soldier
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C50D14.A7C2DDC0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> " Yeah, that's not to say people are getting hurt and dying, but that's =
> part of the job. It does just like the cop on the beat who's shot by a =
> crack dealer-we just see more of it over here. You do the job, and you =
> accept the hazards, dangers and costs. You just do your best to make =
> what your doing worth the cause. BELEIVE me, these Iraqi citizens =
> appreciate it."
>
> questions:
>
> that's part of the job... : whose job?
>
> You do the job, and you accept the hazards, dangers and costs ....: who =
> decides about that? who accepts?
>
> You just do your best to make what your doing worth the cause..: is it =
> really the best that can be done???
>
> these Iraqi citizens appreciate it.........: ?????????????
>
> people are getting hurt and dying.....: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =
> who can justify this???? =20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: Spady's=20
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU=20
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 7:26 PM
> Subject: Word from a US soldier
>
>
> We recently received this message from a friend, fighting in Iraq. I =
> thought that it might be of interest for everyone to hear things from a =
> young soldier's perspective.
>
> If you think about it, we truly are "opening the space" for the Iraqi =
> people to live in peace.
> Judy Spady
>
>
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Daniel Dunn
> Subject: Moving again
>
> Hey All:
>
> Alrighty, You all can un-pucker your fourth points of contact =
> (I'll give a lesson on that when I get home if you don't understand). =
> Let's recap all that has happened. I flew on the 20th and landed =
> evening of the 22nd in Kuwait, then went to Camp Buehring, which is a =
> pushing base, not receiving (going north, not coming south). At that =
> point I was supposed to go to the 506th infantry, the same unit in "Band =
> of Brothers." Then, about a week later, we left and flew into Iraq, =
> landing at a small airbase in our Brigade sector. Upon landing, I =
> learned I would be going to 1st Battalion, 503rd Infantry instead, and =
> almost four days later, right after Election Day here, we arrived at =
> Camp Correigador, home of the 503rd. The history of THAT unit is that =
> it was the only Parachute Infantry Regiment to go to the Pacific theatre =
> in WWII, and earned its nickname of "The Rock," by landing on The Island =
> of Correigador outside the Philippines. The island was famous for being =
> impenetrable.
>
> Now, after being assigned, Brigade has asked for personnel to =
> stand up a special unit. They're calling it a MAT or Military =
> Assistance Team (similar to MAG in Vietnam). The purpose is to train =
> local Iraqi Security Forces to begin taking control of the nation. =
> Ladies and Gentleman, if you want this war to end, then wish me the BEST =
> of frickin luck. This is the KEY to the US leaving. And God knows I =
> want that as much as any mother, father, wife, etc. I do so because I =
> was Mortared Last night. Not hit by mortars (take a breath mom) but in =
> the Dining Facility and heard them coming in.WALKING in. They came =
> closer and closer, four of them. We waited for the fifth that never =
> came. It was just a little taste of war, but it was sourer than =
> fifteen-year-old grapes soaked in lemon juice found at the bottom of a =
> latrine. Makes you heart beat quickly. Luckily, no casualties and we =
> got back at them with some new high tech stuff we got.
>
> Anyways, this is a good job. I'll be at Brigade Headquaters =
> (which is why this doesn't have an APO address yet), out of the way most =
> of the time, and when I'm on the streets, it'll be with other guys =
> watching over Iraqi Troops, and, for those of you who know that my hope =
> is to one day join the Special Forces, this is a GREAT start. That's =
> what SF does all the time!
>
> Spent Election Day at a small Marine Airbase called Al Taqueddum =
> (or TQ for short). The information about the events around us was been =
> sketchy. We heard most of the action is in Baghdad, with some small =
> pockets around us. Sitting in the tent, we heard four large explosions =
> off in the distance, and ran out to see. We watched as two Marine Corps =
> Cobra gunships attacked targets on the ground near the town of =
> Falleujah. We could see the tracers and everything, including smoke on =
> the horizon. Occasionally you'd hear .50 cal's shoot up at the choppers =
> and they'd climb high out of range. Then the shooting would stop and =
> the helicopters would go back down and engage again. We thought an =
> AC-130 was going to clean up, but it just circled over the area once and =
> landed.
>
> Predator drones fly over constantly. It sounds like a lawnmower =
> in the sky! It's kind of an odd sight, but damn, cool thing to see. =
> Not sure on the policy for photos, so I hold off on that. Plus the =
> light was waning, so it might not have turned out very good.
>
> We stayed in a tent about a football field away from the =
> airstrip so we see and hear all this air traffic. It made sleeping at =
> night tough, and I usually had to use ear plugs or my iPod to drown out =
> the noise of the aircraft, especially the -130's and the Cobra's on =
> night missions (we're on a Marine controlled Airbase right now).
>
> There're these small local vendor store (we call a "Hadji-shop") =
> that you can get things you'd never see in America. They have bootleg =
> DVD's (most of which are still in theatre's in the US, but low quality =
> in video), and VERY inexpensive electronics (but questionable about =
> legality on those), as well as Cuban Cigars for very cheap (2 for $10, =
> in comparison to a good Montecristo No. 2 in the US (non-Cuban) for =
> $16.don't ask how I know).
>
> Something I want you all to know (in case the Media f**ks THIS =
> one up) there WAS a 72% turn out at the Iraqi polls. There were over =
> 5,000 voters in Falleujah alone, which is good considering that ended =
> not two months ago. It ALMOST makes it all worth it. I won't tell what =
> the cost was, because it isn't my place. It's not THAT high in =
> comparison to most of what we've done, but.You also need to remember =
> that every voter that DID go out risked their life. The insurgents ran =
> video ads on TV that said they'd kill any voters in the street. These =
> people live in absolute TERROR of these people. Insurgents regularly =
> chop heads of in public squares, kill whole families for US support, and =
> often indiscriminate against US and civilians. Meanwhile, the US builds =
> schools, immunizes children, pays for our damages AND the insurgents =
> damages.I don't tell you this as propaganda or to gross you out, I say =
> it out of shit I have REALLY seen first hand. This war truly isn't =
> about oil or WMD's, at least not to us ground pounders. It's about =
> ridding these people of a scared lifestyle.
>
> Yesterday I talked to one of the Iraqi Commando force that is =
> attached to the 503rd. When I say talked, I mean tried to break the =
> language barrier, and for the most part, did fairly well. We talked =
> about families, and fighting, and stuff like that. We traded dollar for =
> Dinar and signed them for each other. It was cool talking with someone =
> from another world (which again, goes to reinforce that I might be the =
> right guy for this new job).
>
> Anyways, I won't scare you all anymore. I just want all of you =
> to know that WHATEVER the media says, it's not all that bad over here. =
> IEDs don't go off every day, and when they do, someone doesn't always =
> die, mortars arne't shot into Us compounds everyday, and when they do, =
> we're not usually hit or killed, and someone doesn't die everyday over =
> here. Yeah, that's not to say people are getting hurt and dying, but =
> that's part of the job. It does just like the cop on the beat who's =
> shot by a crack dealer-we just see more of it over here. You do the =
> job, and you accept the hazards, dangers and costs. You just do your =
> best to make what your doing worth the cause. BELEIVE me, these Iraqi =
> citizens appreciate it.
>
> Take care all.
>
>
> Daniel "Soldier Boy" Dunn
> 2LT, IN
> 2BCT/2ID
> =20
> =20
> =20
> * * =
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU =
> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your =
> options, view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu: =
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about =
> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: =
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C50D14.A7C2DDC0
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1479" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY=20
> style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: 0px 0px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 5px 10px =
> 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"=20
> bgColor=3D#ffffff background=3D"" scroll=3Dyes ORGYPOS=3D"0">
> <DIV>" Yeah, that=92s not to say people are getting hurt and dying, =
> but=20
> that=92s part of the job. It does just like the cop on the =
> beat who=92s=20
> shot by a crack dealer-we just see more of it over here. You =
> do the=20
> job, and you accept the hazards, dangers and costs. You just =
> do your=20
> best to make what your doing worth the cause. BELEIVE me, =
> these Iraqi=20
> citizens appreciate it."</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>questions:</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>that's part of the job... : <FONT =
> color=3D#0000ff>whose=20
> job?</FONT></FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>You do the job, and you accept the hazards, dangers =
> and costs=20
> ....: <FONT color=3D#0000ff>who decides about that? who=20
> accepts?</FONT></FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>You just do your best to make <EM>what your =
> doing</EM> worth=20
> the cause..: <FONT color=3D#0000ff>is it really the best that can be=20
> done???</FONT></FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>these Iraqi citizens appreciate it.........:<FONT=20
> color=3D#0000ff> ?????????????</FONT></FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>people are getting hurt and dying.....:<FONT=20
> color=3D#0000ff> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! who =
> can justify=20
> this???? </FONT></FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV=20
> style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
> black"><B>From:</B>=20
> <A title=3Dejespady at mydurango.net=20
> href=3D"mailto:ejespady at mydurango.net">Spady's</A> </DIV>
> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
> title=3DOSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU=20
> =
> href=3D"mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE=
> .EDU</A>=20
> </DIV>
> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 04, 2005 =
> 7:26=20
> PM</DIV>
> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Word from a US =
> soldier</DIV>
> <DIV><BR></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>We recently received this message from a friend, =
> fighting in=20
> Iraq. I thought that it might be of interest for everyone to =
> hear things=20
> from a young soldier's perspective.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>If you think about it, we truly are "opening the =
> space" for=20
> the Iraqi people to live in peace.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Judy Spady</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">
> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
> black"> </DIV></DIV>
> <TABLE id=3DINCREDIMAINTABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D2 =
> width=3D"100%"=20
> border=3D0><TBODY>
> <TR>
> <TD id=3DINCREDITEXTREGION=20
> style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; CURSOR: auto; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" =
> width=3D"100%">
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV id=3DIncrediOriginalMessage><I>-------Original=20
> Message-------</I></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV id=3Dreceivestrings>
> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>From:</B></I> <A=20
> href=3D"mailto:ltdbdunn1980 at hotmail.com">Daniel Dunn</A></DIV>
> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Subject:</B></I> =
> Moving=20
> again</DIV></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Hey All:</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Alrighty, You all can un-pucker your fourth points of =
> contact (I=92ll=20
> give a lesson on that when I get home if you don=92t=20
> understand). Let=92s recap all that has =
> happened. I=20
> flew on the 20th and landed evening of the 22nd in Kuwait, then =
> went to=20
> Camp Buehring, which is a pushing base, not receiving (going =
> north, not=20
> coming south). At that point I was supposed to go to =
> the=20
> 506th infantry, the same unit in =93Band of =
> Brothers.=94 Then,=20
> about a week later, we left and flew into Iraq, landing at a =
> small=20
> airbase in our Brigade sector. Upon landing, I =
> learned I=20
> would be going to 1st Battalion, 503rd Infantry instead, and =
> almost four=20
> days later, right after Election Day here, we arrived at Camp=20
> Correigador, home of the 503rd. The history of THAT =
> unit is=20
> that it was the only Parachute Infantry Regiment to go to the =
> Pacific=20
> theatre in WWII, and earned its nickname of =93The Rock,=94 by =
> landing on=20
> The Island of Correigador outside the =
> Philippines. The island=20
> was famous for being impenetrable.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Now, after being assigned, Brigade has asked for personnel =
> to stand=20
> up a special unit. They=92re calling it a MAT or =
> Military=20
> Assistance Team (similar to MAG in Vietnam). The =
> purpose is=20
> to train local Iraqi Security Forces to begin taking control of =
> the=20
> nation. Ladies and Gentleman, if you want this war to =
> end,=20
> then wish me the BEST of frickin luck. This is the =
> KEY to the=20
> US leaving. And God knows I want that as much as any =
> mother,=20
> father, wife, etc. I do so because I was Mortared =
> Last=20
> night. Not hit by mortars (take a breath mom) but in =
> the=20
> Dining Facility and heard them coming in=85WALKING =
> in. They=20
> came closer and closer, four of them. We waited for =
> the fifth=20
> that never came. It was just a little taste of war, =
> but it=20
> was sourer than fifteen-year-old grapes soaked in lemon juice =
> found at=20
> the bottom of a latrine. Makes you heart beat=20
> quickly. Luckily, no casualties and we got back at =
> them with=20
> some new high tech stuff we got.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Anyways, this is a good job. I=92ll be at =
> Brigade=20
> Headquaters (which is why this doesn=92t have an APO address =
> yet), out of=20
> the way most of the time, and when I=92m on the streets, it=92ll =
> be with=20
> other guys watching over Iraqi Troops, and, for those of you who =
> know=20
> that my hope is to one day join the Special Forces, this is a =
> GREAT=20
> start. That=92s what SF does all the time!</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV>Spent Election Day at a small Marine Airbase called Al =
> Taqueddum=20
> (or TQ for short). The information about the events =
> around us=20
> was been sketchy. We heard most of the action is in =
> Baghdad,=20
> with some small pockets around us. Sitting in the =
> tent, we=20
> heard four large explosions off in the distance, and ran out to=20
> see. We watched as two Marine Corps Cobra gunships =
> attacked=20
> targets on the ground near the town of Falleujah. We =
> could=20
> see the tracers and everything, including smoke on the=20
> horizon. Occasionally you=92d hear .50 cal=92s shoot =
> up at the=20
> choppers and they=92d climb high out of range. Then =
> the=20
> shooting would stop and the helicopters would go back down and =
> engage=20
> again. We thought an AC-130 was going to clean up, =
> but it=20
> just circled over the area once and landed.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Predator drones fly over constantly. It sounds =
> like a=20
> lawnmower in the sky! It=92s kind of an odd sight, =
> but damn,=20
> cool thing to see. Not sure on the policy for photos, =
> so I=20
> hold off on that. Plus the light was waning, so it =
> might not=20
> have turned out very good.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>We stayed in a tent about a football field away from the =
> airstrip=20
> so we see and hear all this air traffic. It made =
> sleeping at=20
> night tough, and I usually had to use ear plugs or my iPod to =
> drown out=20
> the noise of the aircraft, especially the -130=92s and the =
> Cobra=92s on=20
> night missions (we=92re on a Marine controlled Airbase right =
> now).</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV>There=92re these small local vendor store (we call a =
> =93Hadji-shop=94)=20
> that you can get things you=92d never see in =
> America. They have=20
> bootleg DVD=92s (most of which are still in theatre=92s in the =
> US, but low=20
> quality in video), and VERY inexpensive electronics (but =
> questionable=20
> about legality on those), as well as Cuban Cigars for very cheap =
> (2 for=20
> $10, in comparison to a good Montecristo No. 2 in the US =
> (non-Cuban) for=20
> $16=85don=92t ask how I know).</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Something I want you all to know (in case the Media f**ks =
> THIS one=20
> up) there WAS a 72% turn out at the Iraqi =
> polls. There were=20
> over 5,000 voters in Falleujah alone, which is good considering =
> that=20
> ended not two months ago. It ALMOST makes it all =
> worth=20
> it. I won=92t tell what the cost was, because it =
> isn=92t my=20
> place. It=92s not THAT high in comparison to most of =
> what we=92ve=20
> done, but=85You also need to remember that every voter that DID =
> go out=20
> risked their life. The insurgents ran video ads on TV =
> that=20
> said they=92d kill any voters in the street. These =
> people live=20
> in absolute TERROR of these people. Insurgents =
> regularly chop=20
> heads of in public squares, kill whole families for US support, =
> and=20
> often indiscriminate against US and =
> civilians. Meanwhile, the=20
> US builds schools, immunizes children, pays for our damages AND =
> the=20
> insurgents damages=85I don=92t tell you this as propaganda or to =
> gross you=20
> out, I say it out of shit I have REALLY seen first =
> hand. This=20
> war truly isn=92t about oil or WMD=92s, at least not to us =
> ground=20
> pounders. It=92s about ridding these people of a =
> scared=20
> lifestyle.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Yesterday I talked to one of the Iraqi Commando force that =
> is=20
> attached to the 503rd. When I say talked, I mean =
> tried to=20
> break the language barrier, and for the most part, did fairly=20
> well. We talked about families, and fighting, and =
> stuff like=20
> that. We traded dollar for Dinar and signed them for =
> each=20
> other. It was cool talking with someone from another =
> world=20
> (which again, goes to reinforce that I might be the right guy =
> for this=20
> new job).</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Anyways, I won=92t scare you all anymore. I just =
> want all=20
> of you to know that WHATEVER the media says, it=92s not all that =
> bad over=20
> here. IEDs don=92t go off every day, and when they =
> do, someone=20
> doesn=92t always die, mortars arne=92t shot into Us compounds =
> everyday, and=20
> when they do, we=92re not usually hit or killed, and someone =
> doesn=92t die=20
> everyday over here. Yeah, that=92s not to say people =
> are=20
> getting hurt and dying, but that=92s part of the =
> job. It does=20
> just like the cop on the beat who=92s shot by a crack dealer-we =
> just see=20
> more of it over here. You do the job, and you accept =
> the=20
> hazards, dangers and costs. You just do your best to =
> make=20
> what your doing worth the cause. BELEIVE me, these =
> Iraqi=20
> citizens appreciate it.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Take care all.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Daniel "Soldier Boy" Dunn</DIV>
> <DIV>2LT, IN</DIV>
> <DIV>2BCT/2ID</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV></TD></TR>
> <TR>
> <TD id=3DINCREDIFOOTER width=3D"100%">
> <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D"100%">
> <TBODY>
> <TR>
> <TD width=3D"100%"><FONT size=3D2></FONT></TD>
> <TD id=3DINCREDISOUND vAlign=3Dbottom align=3Dmiddle></TD>
> <TD id=3DINCREDIANIM vAlign=3Dbottom=20
> =
> align=3Dmiddle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><SPAN =
>
> id=3DIncrediStamp><SPAN dir=3Dltr><A=20
> href=3D"http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=3D54475"><IMG=20
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> =
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To =
> subscribe,=20
> unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of=20
> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:=20
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about=20
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> </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
> *
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> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
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> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C50D14.A7C2DDC0--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 06:48:10 -0500
> From: Jim Metcalf <jim9654 at altelco.net>
> Subject: Open Space and Anti-Americanism
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C50CE1.00761240
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> charset="us-ascii"
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>
> David,
>
> Many of us south (or west - Michigan) of Canada are far from comfy with =
> what
> our nation is doing in Iraq and the rest of the world at this time. Some =
> of
> us are trying to figure out why so many of our fellow citizens support a
> president whose thinking lacks logical coherence and a connection to
> reality. It's a puzzle, and we'd deeply appreciate help.=20
>
> =20
>
> Best Wishes Always,
>
> Jim Metcalf
>
> =20
>
>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C50CE1.00761240
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>
> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>
>
> <div class=3DSection1>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><span =
> style=3D'font-size:
> 11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>David</span></font><font
> face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><span style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
> MS"'>,</span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><span =
> style=3D'font-size:
> 11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Many of us south (or west – =
> Michigan)
> of Canada are far from comfy with what our nation is doing in Iraq and =
> the rest
> of the world at this time. Some of us are trying to figure out why so =
> many of
> our fellow citizens support a president whose thinking lacks logical =
> coherence
> and a connection to reality. It’s a puzzle, and we’d deeply
> appreciate help. </span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><span =
> style=3D'font-size:
> 11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'> </span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><span =
> style=3D'font-size:
> 11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Best Wishes =
> Always,</span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><span =
> style=3D'font-size:
> 11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Jim</span></font><font
> face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><span style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'> =
> </span></font><font
> face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><span style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
> MS"'>Metcalf</span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Century =
> Gothic"> </font></p>
>
> </div>
>
> </body>
>
> </html>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C50CE1.00761240--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 19:39:06 +0600
> From: =?koi8-r?Q?=F4=D1=D3=D4=CF_=ED=C1=D2=C9=CE=C1_=F7=2E?=
> <tyasto at sapa.nsk.su>
> Subject: Latest Ad for the 7th Global Leadership Forum
>
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
> this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C50D1A.64D6B2B0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="koi8-r"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Friends of the Global Leadership Forum:
>
>
>
> We are pleased to send our latest flyer to you. We have extended our
> deadline for submission of abstracts. We have added a new subtheme about
> leadership and new initiative in the private sector and have clearly
> indicated that we would welcome submissions and presentations about the
> contributions of the late Senator William Fulbright and his leadership
> role.
>
>
>
> Please bring it to the attention of your friends and colleagues and
> consider
> coming to the forum if you have not registered already. It promises to be
> a
> very exciting learning opportunity.
>
>
>
> We look forward to hearing from you and your friends.
>
>
>
> Hulya Yurtsever
>
> Coordinator
>
> Bahcesehir Ugur Educational Institutions
>
> Tel: +90-212-259 83 31
>
> Fax: +90-212-236 23 72
>
> Mobile: +90-532-345 57 37
>
> The University of Bahcesehir
>
> The School of Government and Leadership
>
> The UNESCO Leadership Chair
>
> In Partnership with the Center for Creative Leadership
>
> are pleased to invite presentations and participation at
>
>
>
> The 7th Global Leadership Forum:
>
> June 23-26, 2005
>
> ISTANBUL
>
> LEADERSHIP AND DEMOCRATIC GOVERNANCE
>
> Multicultural Peace-Building, Corporate Social Responsibility, Leadership
> Development
>
>
>
>
>
> Speakers include: Mrs. Harriet Fulbright
>
>
> Congressman Paul Findley
>
>
> Sub-themes:
>
> 1. Leadership and Public Policy, nationally and internationally
>
> 2. Leadership, and corporate social responsibility in the private
> sector
>
> 3. Leadership and intercultural cooperation
>
> 4. Leadership and Capacity Building
>
> 5. Leadership Development Initiatives
>
> 6. Leadership and New Initiatives in the Private Sector
>
> 7. Celebrating the Centennial of Senator William Fulbright
>
>
>
>
>
> Subsidized Registration Package: US$790 (Fulbright Scholars and Students
> US$690) including 5 nights at a 4 star hotel, breakfast and lunch everyday
> during the conference and a cultural tour of Istanbul. (US$990 and US$890
> for 5 star equivalent accommodation.)
>
> For information: Miss Hulya Yurtsever. Tel: +90-212-259 83 31. Fax:
> +90-212-236 23 72. Mobile: +90-532 345 57 37 E-mail: glf at bahcesehir.edu.tr
> <http://mail02.mail.com/scripts/mail/compose.mail?compose=1&.ob=&composeto=g
> lf%40bahcesehir.edu.tr> or sgl at bahcesehir.edu.tr
> <http://mail02.mail.com/scripts/mail/compose.mail?compose=1&.ob=&composeto=s
> gl%40bahcesehir.edu.tr>
>
> Payment: Please make payment by bank transfer to: The School of Government
> and Leadership. The University of Bahcesehir. Is Bank Atakoy. 5th Kisim
> Branch. Atakoy, Istanbul, Turkey. Branch Code 1198. Account Number:
> 3250333. Swift Code: ISBKTRIS
>
> You may also pay online at: http://www.bahcesehir.edu.tr/glf/
>
> For presentations: Please send by March 1st, 100-word biographical note
> and
> 200-word abstracts to: Prof. Adel Safty, President of the School of
> Government and Leadership: safty.sgl at bahcesehir.edu.tr
> <http://mail02.mail.com/scripts/mail/compose.mail?compose=1&.ob=7ceb1a16b6ce
> aee4d3a414328d4139cd08e13031&composeto=asafty.sgl at bahcesehir.edu.tr&composec
> c=&subject=&body=> or globalleaders <mailto:globalleaders at workmail.com>
> @workmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C50D1A.64D6B2B0
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> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
> size=2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV class=Section1>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dear Friends of the </SPAN></FONT>Global
> Leadership
> Forum:</P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">We are pleased to send our latest flyer to you. We
> have
> extended our deadline for submission of abstracts. We have added a new
> subtheme
> about leadership and new initiative in the private sector and have clearly
> indicated that we would welcome submissions and presentations about the
> contributions of the late Senator William Fulbright and his leadership
> role.</SPAN></FONT></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Please bring it to the attention of your friends
> and
> colleagues and consider coming to the forum if you have not registered
> already.
> It promises to be a very exciting learning opportunity.</SPAN></FONT></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">We look forward to hearing from you and your
> friends.</SPAN></FONT></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Hulya
> Yurtsever</SPAN></FONT></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
> Verdana">Coordinator</SPAN></FONT></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Bahcesehir Ugur Educational
> Institutions</SPAN></FONT></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Tel: +90-212-259 83
> 31</SPAN></FONT></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Fax: +90-212-236 23
> 72</SPAN></FONT></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana size=2><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Mobile: +90-532-345 57
> 37</SPAN></FONT></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><B><FONT
> face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">The </SPAN></FONT></B><B><FONT
> size=4><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE:
> 14pt">University</SPAN></FONT></B><B><FONT
> size=4><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"> of
> </SPAN></FONT></B><B><FONT size=4><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE:
> 14pt">Bahcesehir</SPAN></FONT></B></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><B><FONT
> face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">The </SPAN></FONT></B><B><FONT
> size=4><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE:
> 14pt">School</SPAN></FONT></B><B><FONT
> size=4><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"> of
> </SPAN></FONT></B><B><FONT size=4><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE:
> 14pt">Government</SPAN></FONT></B><B><FONT
> size=4><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"> and
> Leadership</SPAN></FONT></B></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><B><FONT
> face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">The UNESCO Leadership
> Chair</SPAN></FONT></B></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><B><FONT
> face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">In Partnership with the Center
> for
> Creative Leadership</SPAN></FONT></B></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
> face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">are
> pleased to invite presentations and participation at</SPAN></FONT></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
> <P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><B><FONT
> face="Times New Roman" size=5><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 18pt">The 7<SUP>th</SUP>
> </SPAN></FONT></B><B><FONT size=5><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 18pt">Global Leadership
> Forum</SPAN></FONT></B><B><FONT size=5><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 18pt">:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
> size=5><SPAN
> lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><B><FONT
> face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">June 23-26,
> 2005</SPAN></FONT></B></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><B><FONT
> face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">ISTANBUL</SPAN></FONT></B></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><B><FONT
> face="Times New Roman" size=5><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 16pt">LEADERSHIP AND DEMOCRATIC
> GOVERNANCE</SPAN></FONT></B></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
> face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Multicultural Peace-Building, Corporate Social
> Responsibility, Leadership Development</SPAN></FONT></P>
> <H2 style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><B><FONT face="Times New
> Roman"
> size=5><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
> Roman'"></SPAN></FONT></B> </H2>
> <H2><B><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
> Roman'">Speakers
> include</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">:
> Mrs. Harriet
> Fulbright</SPAN></FONT></H2>
> <H2 style="MARGIN-LEFT: 108pt"><B><FONT face="Times New Roman"
> size=5><SPAN
> lang=EN-CA
> style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
> Roman'">
> Congressman Paul Findley</SPAN></FONT></B></H2>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Sub-themes:</SPAN></FONT></P>
> <OL type=1>
> <LI class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Leadership and Public Policy, nationally and
> internationally</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US> </SPAN></FONT>
> <LI class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Leadership, and corporate social responsibility
> in the
> private sector</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US> </SPAN></FONT>
> <LI class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Leadership and intercultural
> cooperation</SPAN><SPAN
> lang=EN-US> </SPAN></FONT>
> <LI class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Leadership and </SPAN></FONT><SPAN
> lang=EN-US>Capacity</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US> </SPAN><SPAN
> lang=EN-US>Building</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US> </SPAN>
> <LI class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Leadership Development Initiatives</SPAN><SPAN
> lang=EN-US> </SPAN></FONT>
> <LI class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Leadership and New Initiatives in the Private
> Sector</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US> </SPAN></FONT>
> <LI class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Celebrating the Centennial of Senator William
> Fulbright</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US> </SPAN></FONT></LI></OL>
> <P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT></B> </P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT></B> </P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Subsidized Registration
> Package</SPAN></FONT></B><SPAN lang=EN-US>: <B><SPAN
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">US$790 (Fulbright Scholars and Students
> US$690)</SPAN></B> including 5 nights at a 4 star hotel, breakfast and
> lunch
> everyday during the conference and a cultural tour of </SPAN><SPAN
> lang=EN-US>Istanbul</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US>. (US$990 and US$890 for 5 star
> equivalent accommodation.) </SPAN></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">For
> information</SPAN></FONT></B><SPAN lang=EN-US>: Miss Hulya Yurtsever. Tel:
> +90-212-259 83 31. Fax: +90-212-236 23 72. Mobile: +90-532 345 57 37
> E-mail: <A
> href="http://mail02.mail.com/scripts/mail/compose.mail?compose=1&.ob=&composeto=glf%40bahcesehir.edu.tr"
> target=_blank>glf at bahcesehir.edu.tr</A> or <A
> href="http://mail02.mail.com/scripts/mail/compose.mail?compose=1&.ob=&composeto=sgl%40bahcesehir.edu.tr"
> target=_blank>sgl at bahcesehir.edu.tr</A></SPAN></P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Payment:</SPAN></FONT></B><SPAN
> lang=EN-US> Please make payment by bank transfer to: The School of
> Government
> and Leadership. The </SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US>University</SPAN><SPAN
> lang=EN-US>
> of </SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US>Bahcesehir</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US>. Is
> Bank
> Atakoy. 5th Kisim Branch. Atakoy, </SPAN><SPAN
> lang=EN-US>Istanbul</SPAN><SPAN
> lang=EN-US>, </SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US>Turkey</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US>.
> Branch Code
> 1198. Account Number: 3250333. Swift Code:
> ISBKTRIS</SPAN></P><PRE><B><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
> lang=EN-CA style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
> New Roman'">You may also pay online at:
> http://www.bahcesehir.edu.tr/glf/</SPAN></FONT></B></PRE><PRE><B><FONT
> face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-CA style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold;
> FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
> Roman'"> </SPAN></FONT></B></PRE><PRE><B><FONT face="Times New Roman"
> size=3><SPAN lang=EN-CA style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
> FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">For presentations</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
> face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-CA style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
> FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">: Please send by </SPAN></FONT><FONT
> face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-CA style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
> FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">March 1<SUP>st</SUP>,
> 100</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-CA
> style="FON!
> T-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">-word biographical note and
> 200-word abstracts to:</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
> lang=EN-CA style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
> face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-CA style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
> FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">Prof. </SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New
> Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-CA style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
> New Roman'">Adel Safty</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman"
> size=3><SPAN lang=EN-CA style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
> Roman'">, President of the </SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman"
> size=3><SPAN lang=EN-CA style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
> Roman'">School</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
> lang=EN-CA style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> of
> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-CA
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">Government!
> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-CA
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> and Leadership:
> <A
> href="http://mail02.mail.com/scripts/mail/compose.mail?compose=1&.ob=7ceb1a16b6ceaee4d3a414328d4139cd08e13031&composeto=asafty.sgl@bahcesehir.edu.tr&composecc=&subject=&body=">safty.sgl at bahcesehir.edu.tr</A>
> or </SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN lang=EN-CA
> style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><A
> href="mailto:globalleaders at workmail.com">globalleaders<SPAN
> lang=EN-US>@workmail.com</SPAN></A></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT
> face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
> FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></FONT></PRE>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-US
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
> style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV></BODY></HTML>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
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> -----------------------------
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> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C50D1A.64D6B2B0--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 21:58:52 +0200
> From: Funda Oral <fundaoral at ttnet.net.tr>
> Subject: Re: The Question
>
> Harrison, the article has been very helpful to clear many concepts.
> The thought that made me think most, that was striking for me, is the
> following ;
>
> The Search for Fitness is, of course, the touchstone of Darwinian
> evolutionary theory, although it is more usually rendered (incorrectly, I
> think) as the survival of the fittest. The central point is that there is
> present a "desire" to function at a higher level, and therefore a search
> for
> a better way to fit in with the surrounding world.
> Those who fit better, survive better.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Harrison Owen" <hhowen at comcast.net>
> To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 6:02 PM
> Subject: The Question
>
>
> Some time ago I shared a chapter for a new book all about Nichtwissen. I
> suspect the whole thing did sound rather esoteric, and therefore
> off-putting
> - but I received some great and helpful comments from the likes of Artur
> and
> Larry, amongst others. All very helpful, and put to good use I hope.
> Anyhow
> I have finished for the moment and placed the new edit on my website if
> you
> care to take a look. I think you may find it interesting for several
> reasons. First, it is all about Knowledge Management and Open Space. To
> the
> extent that clients, potential or present, are interested in Knowledge
> Management (and everybody seems to be) this could provide yet one more
> opportunity to open space for fame or fortune. The other reason is that I,
> at least, found the lens of Knowledge Management to provide some new and
> interesting viewpoints of this funny thing we are all involved with. So
> enjoy, if that is your pleasure, and of course I am always interested to
> hear about what you thought and any new directions you may have explored.
>
> For the Trip, click on --
> http://openspaceworld.com/Opening%20Space%20for%20The%20Question.htm
>
>
> Harrison
>
> Harrison Owen
> 7808 River Falls Drive
> Potomac, Maryland 20845
> Phone 301-365-2093
>
> Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
> <http://www.openspaceworld.com/>
>
> Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
> Personal website http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hhowen/index.htm
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives Visit:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
>
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 23:22:55 +0200
> From: Funda Oral <fundaoral at ttnet.net.tr>
> Subject: Re: Is trust a part of open space?
>
> I am very interested if anyone cares to share: what do you do? When do you
> decide not to step in
> even if you are asked to?
> All the best
> Tova
>
> Dear Tova,
>
> Similar to you,
> If the call does not sound genuine to me...then i stay out.
> If i feel that the space is not open, then i stay out.
>
> Funda
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "averbuch" <averbuch at post.tau.ac.il>
> To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 2:32 AM
> Subject: Re: Is trust a part of open space?
>
>
> I believe trust can be both the result of an open space gathering (in at
> least 90% of what I have witnessed or facilitated). and the precondition
> to
> one.
>
> An example that comes to mind is the 3 day OS in Rome 4 years ago,
> facilitated by Harrison, of Israelis and Palestinians opening space for
> the
> question of:" what are the issues and challenges in building trust"... The
> people that came didn't trust one another to begin with but they did care
> enough to come. The wading through for three days together created some
> fragile but real trust. Some people stayed in contact, most didn't, but
> all
> stayed with the experience that it was and is possible to move forward
> (there is a paper telling the story of what the participants thought of
> the
> experience a year and a half later that was put together buy Carol Daniel,
> Avner Haramati and myself for the POP gathering in Seattle (Whidbey).
>
> As I understand it the basic element of trust needed may be only one:
> - thinking that it is worthwhile trusting the wisdom of self organization
> in
> the sense that you "know" (deeply trust) that human kind, like any other
> kind - has a collective wisdom that will be manifested if called for. Like
> trusting the process of giving birth (yes you need to keep it clean and
> take
> some measures of rest before and after, and a nap throughout won't hurt
> too:)).
> When I come to think of it my main road of learning the sense of
> self organization over time are all of you, who became, as trust
> grew and developed, my community of practice. Watching oslist showed me in
> a
> very plain and simple way the dance of the visible, the lurking, the
> emergent-.
>
> If the open space takes place in a community this basic element is enough
> and I trust that those who care enough to come will show up and do the
> work
> of the collective.
>
> If the open space takes place in a context of an organization I usually
> need
> a second sense of trust and that is:
> - that those in power and formal leadership really know that opening space
> means sharing power/leadership, opening up to surprise - at least have
> this
> intention. I am not very particular if they espier for sharing leadership
> because of their values or because of their despair but I do mind if they
> are genuine.
>
> For this second sense of trust I do preparatory work. When I smell the
> reason for an OS is "a new fad" I try to stay out. I am very interested if
> anyone cares to share: what do you do? When do you decide not to step in
> even if you are asked to?
> All the best
> Tova
>
> Tova Averbuch èåáä àåøáåê
> 34 Rabinovitz St. øçåá øáéðåáéõ 34
> Holon 58672 çåìåï
> Israel
> 972-3-5523476
> averbuch at post.tau.ac.il
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Shay Ben
> Yosef
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:16 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: {Spam?} Re: Is trust a part of open space?
>
>
> Dear friends
>
> yes the trust is a basic element of the OS but unfortunately we can't
> force
> it to be there...
>
> So we just have to enable it, to make the proper conditions.
>
> Maybe if I trust myself, trusting the sponsor, the preparation team and
> the
> participants it will show up
>
> Thank you all for the learning opportunities I'm getting from this
> community
>
> Shay
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Harrison Owen" <hhowen at comcast.net>
> To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 6:05 PM
> Subject: FW: Is trust a part of open space?
>
>
>> From: Harrison Owen [mailto:hhowen at comcast.net]
>> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 7:39 AM
>> To: 'Therese Fitzpatrick'
>> Subject: RE: Is trust a part of open space?
>>
>> I suppose it wouldn't hurt to ask folk to trust, but I doubt it would
>> do
> any
>> good. A very high percentage of the time when somebody says, "Trust
>> me" we think just the opposite. If you have to say it, it may not be
>> there, and
> if
>> you have to ask for it, it may never come. The most wonderful thing
>> for me is that without a word, Trust shows up (along with respect and
>> hope).
> After
>> the fact it probably wouldn't hurt to ask folks if they noticed???
>> When I
> do
>> this -- there is usually a gorgeous collective Ahaaah! Moment.
>>
>> Harrison Owen
>> 7808 River Falls Drive
>> Potomac, Maryland 20845
>> Phone 301-365-2093
>>
>> Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
>> Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
>> Personal website http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hhowen/index.htm
>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives
>> Visit: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of
>> Therese Fitzpatrick
>> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:08 AM
>> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Is trust a part of open space?
>>
>> Thanks, Allen.
>>
>> I see trust as part of the energy that allows open space to emerge. I
>> see it as integral to all the principles and the law of two feet.
>>
>> Is it acceptable Open Space practice to invite participants to trust?
>> Or is it best to leave trust unspoken?
>>
>> Thanks. I'm chewing on something and I'd like to hear about
>> experiences around 'trust'.
>>
>> Therese
>> (Paul: I just remembered that I am not using my name. My apologies.)
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:53:31 -0500, Alan Klein <alan at klein.net> wrote:
>> > Sure and it goes beyond "Trust the process", though that is
>> > important. I believe that it starts (and maybe ends) with the
>> > facilitator trusting themselves.
>> >
>> > ~Alan Klein
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Therese Fitzpatrick
>> > I am just going to ask my question without posting what I think.
>> > I'd like to hear some what some of you think about trust and open
>> > space.
>> >
>> > *
>> > * ==========================================================
>> > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>> > ------------------------------
>> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
>> > view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>> >
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>> > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>> >
>>
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>> *
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 00:34:13 +0000
> From: Seamus McInerney <seamus at crossroadsfacilitation.ie>
> Subject: Re: Open Space & Anti-Americanism
>
> So if space has been open for all of history...
>
> During an OS event space is opened. Sessions are convened and discussion
> starts. It is more then likely that the "subspace" that has been created
> within the open space and which we call a session, closes from time to
> time, around some particular point of conflict. The topic of the session
> may itself be an attempt by an individual or group of individuals to close
> the space around a particular point of view. A participant may attempt to
> reopen the space, fail and applying the law of two feet, head off back
> into
> open space.
>
> So it is possible that during the 14MYears of open space, parts of the
> space have closed around certain individuals or groups. Nazi Germany in
> the
> 30's and 40's is an example. Organised religions have many times sought to
> close the space around a particular point of view. As have politicians and
> Monarchs.
>
> So every so often we need facilitators to awake from their well deserved
> naps and remind us of what open space is really like. It is comforting to
> know that the cosmic space is always open to the possibility of
> self-organisation and that all closed space is ultimately, local space.
>
> Shay
>
>
> At 17:04 06/02/2005, you wrote:
>>I am not quite sure how what I find myself thinking/writing here fits into
>>the discussion of "Open Space & Anti-Americanism" -- but there is a
>>connection, I am sure. Maybe I will find it? :-)
>>
>>Several days ago I began a conversation with an engineer from Johns
>>Hopkins's University who is in some way responsible for a medical
>>technology
>>development center. They have a number of issues, but at the core is a
>>mission to develop robotic technology for the treatment of disease. Pretty
>>far out, and multi-disciplinary with a vengeance! Anyhow, they thought a
>>little Open Space might be helpful. Far be it from me to disagree. Then
>>this
>>engineer went on to say that he had been checking out various websites
>>(which ones I don't know) and said that he felt a little uneasy because
>>some
>>of it sounded pretty weird and spiritual -- almost cult like. I told him
>>that I could certainly understand, but that he needed to realize that when
>>folks found themselves in Open Space (even engineers)doing what they
>>really
>>loved to do, at a level of performance they would not have dreamed of, and
>>having fun besides -- they tended to become somewhat enthusiastic, maybe
>>even overly enthusiastic. And genuine enthusiasm in the world we live in
>>may
>>seem a little strange. He said he got it -- and I think he did -- so I
>>didn't have to go on and point out that "enthusiasm" literally means being
>>"in God." (Greek: "en" - in "theos" - God). It was probably a very good
>>thing that I didn't have to proceed with my discourse which might well
>>have
>>confirmed his original suspicions.
>>
>>Where am I going will all this? Certainly my point is NOT to suggest any
>>restraint and censorship (even self-imposed) here on OSLIST. We are what
>>we
>>are, and I just love it. But it is probably useful to consider every so
>>often just how other folks might hear our conversations. What we take to
>>be
>>normative experience they might perceive as totally off the wall. I see no
>>possibility of being anything less than enthusiastic about the power and
>>possibilities of the human spirit as that shows up every day and in just
>>about every Open Space. If that is outrageous, so be it. If I am
>>outrageous,
>>well I guess that is just the way I am. Still and all, a little reflection
>>on the impact of my (our words) can be useful.
>>
>>Oh yes -- now I am beginning to see the flow, and how my thoughts may have
>>wandered (played off?) from "Open Space & Anti-Americanism." As we do our
>>work in all the places and conditions that work takes us (all over the
>>world, for goodness sake!) it is understandable and probably inevitable
>>that
>>we begin to associate Open Space with other realities and concerns in our
>>lives. If we find ourselves opposed, for whatever reason (and maybe very
>>good reasons) to such things as globalization, the right wing, the left
>>wing, liberals, conservatives, fundamentalists, atheists, warriors,
>>politicians, capitalists, bleeding hearts, new age crowd, animists or
>>environmentalists -- just to name a few, it is tempting to see such folks
>>as
>>somehow outside of, or even opposed to, the principles of Open Space. In
>>some sense, of course, they may well be -- and in a deeper sense, nothing
>>could be further from the truth, I think.
>>
>>After all, Open Space is not all that special or particular. If we are at
>>all correct in our understanding of the operative power, Open Space works
>>because self-organization works. And self-organization has been going on
>>ever since-- just about 14 billion years, or so they say. In the great
>>fabric of the cosmos, as it has self-organized itself from nothing to
>>whatever it is now, nothing is excluded (by definition). Everything, and
>>everybody has had a part to play, and all have contributed to this
>>incredible journey. In the moment, we may prefer Gandhi to Adolph Hitler
>>(I
>>certainly would) or Martin Luther King to George Bush ("w"). But from the
>>vantage point of 14 billion years of cosmic history all of these people
>>are
>>just blips along the way. Sorry George, but no matter what you may think
>>of
>>yourself and your role in history, you are just a blip. And of course,
>>this
>>14 billion year history may be just a blip as well -- who knows. But I for
>>one am just enthralled with the majesty and beauty of the story. Quite a
>>show! And it was/is all done by blips!
>>
>>So where does that leave us? I guess what I am thinking is that when we
>>presume to Open Space (facilitate an Open Space) it is probably worth
>>while
>>to remember that the space, in fact, has been open for some time -- all
>>without our help and assistance. It is our privilege to remember that
>>fact,
>>and perhaps to help our fellow humanoids to remember it as well, if not at
>>the level of conscious understanding, then at least at the level of
>>experience. And experience, after all is the best teacher.
>>
>>Our act of remembrance has some possibly strange characteristics. For me
>>it
>>is all about showing up, being fully present, telling the truth, and
>>letting
>>it all go. Or worse -- being totally present and absolutely invisible.
>>Does
>>that mean, then, that there is no place for overt action on our part? If
>>so,
>>major portions of my life as a social activist, and there have been more
>>than a few, all stand in stark contrast, not to say contradiction, to what
>>I
>>have been talking about here. Possible for sure, but I don't feel that
>>way.
>>However, I do feel the necessity to recognize that when I join a picket
>>line, actively advance a particular political agenda, and the like -- I am
>>actually filling up space. Or said another way, I am intentionally
>>becoming
>>an agent in the ongoing process of self organization. Frankly, I would do
>>no
>>different, but I must recognize that I too am just a blip, if that.
>>
>>If I were to put all this together, it would come out something like the
>>following. Holding space and being an activist are two ends of a spectrum,
>>and attempting to do both at the same time usually gets you in trouble, if
>>not in schizophrenia. But the ends of the spectrum are always connected,
>>and
>>at any given time we (certainly I) find ourselves somewhere along the way.
>>If my intent is to Open Space, I must let go as much as possible all
>>thoughts of action, and a 14,000,000,000 year perspective can be very
>>helpful. And when I choose to act, I must do so with every ounce of
>>passion
>>and talent at my disposal, even though I take up a lot of space. And the
>>14
>>billion year perspective is still helpful. I am still a blip, and a very
>>small one at that.
>>
>>Wow! If my new engineer friend were to read all this stuff, who knows what
>>he might come to think about Open Space? But you can't be perfect.
>>
>>Harrison
>>
>>
>>
>>Harrison Owen
>>7808 River Falls Drive
>>Potomac, Maryland 20845
>>Phone 301-365-2093
>>
>>Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
>>Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
>>Personal website http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hhowen/index.htm
>>OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives Visit:
>>http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of David
>>William McKay
>>Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 7:56 AM
>>To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>>Subject: Open Space & Anti-Americanism
>>
>>Sorry I'm on digest so can't refer to a specific posting.
>>
>>Someone linked to an article and said something like: Anti-americanism
>>is dead. Or some such. I agree there's nothing to be gained from
>>anti-americanism. Speaking from the pacifist side of the open-space I'm
>>glad we finally are seeing nudges towards democracy in Iraq. But I also
>>find it hard to see how anyone in favour of collaborative organizational
>>change -- which is what I take open-space to be -- could feel all that
>>comfy with a war justified by lies and false intelligence.
>>
>>War is always about changing the government of another nation-state by
>>killing its citizens. That's about as far from collaborative change as
>>you can get. It may at times be necessary. But when it is -- surely the
>>ideal in a democratic state is to have a meaningful conversation about
>>what counts as necessary so the management team (aka the Executive
>>Branch) can have a mandate based upon informed consent.
>>
>>If I was an American -- I'm a Canuck -- I would be worried about the
>>situation. Perhaps I have it bass-ackwards. But in wartime survival
>>dictates "my country right or wrong" but in peacetime democracy dictates
>>that the citizenry place democracy itself as the priority.
>>
>>David McKay
>>
>>*
>>*
>>==========================================================
>>OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>>------------------------------
>>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
>>view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>>http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>>
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>>http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>>
>>*
>>*
>>==========================================================
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>>------------------------------
>>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
>>view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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>>
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>>http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> Crossroads Facilitation
> 50 Carrigdhoun, Waterpark, Carrigaline, Co. Cork
> www.crossroadsfacilitation.ie
> "Building bridges and getting you over them"
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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>
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> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 17:22:05 -0600
> From: Steve Gawron <gawron at megsinet.net>
> Subject: Re: Open Space & Anti-Americanism
>
> Hello David and all,
>
> As an American, I find it counter-productive to compare giving birth to
> democracy and removing a tyrant who killed millions of his country's
> citizens to anything but furthering the cause of peace. Only an ostrich
> sticks his head in the sand and expects danger to go away.
>
> It is NOT "my country right or wrong", it is "Doing the right thing before
> something horrible goes wrong." As an American, I would have rather we
> did
> not get involved in Iraq, but on the same hand I am glad we lent a hand to
> citizens in Iraq and Afghanistan to allow them to form their own destiny.
>
> As the open space adage goes, whoever shows up is the right persons to be
> there. As an American, I am glad we responded to a call for peace in that
> region. If disagreeing with this is considered anti-American, then you
> are
> entitled to your opinion. But I still feel, Saddam and his henchmen were
> and are a destabilizing influence on Peace in that region and the rest of
> the world. You can't have it both ways.
>
> I will go back to lurking now,
>
> Steve Gawron
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David William McKay" <dwmckay at sympatico.ca>
> To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 6:56 AM
> Subject: Open Space & Anti-Americanism
>
>
>> Sorry I'm on digest so can't refer to a specific posting.
>>
>> Someone linked to an article and said something like: Anti-americanism
>> is dead. Or some such. I agree there's nothing to be gained from
>> anti-americanism. Speaking from the pacifist side of the open-space I'm
>> glad we finally are seeing nudges towards democracy in Iraq. But I also
>> find it hard to see how anyone in favour of collaborative organizational
>> change -- which is what I take open-space to be -- could feel all that
>> comfy with a war justified by lies and false intelligence.
>>
>> War is always about changing the government of another nation-state by
>> killing its citizens. That's about as far from collaborative change as
>> you can get. It may at times be necessary. But when it is -- surely the
>> ideal in a democratic state is to have a meaningful conversation about
>> what counts as necessary so the management team (aka the Executive
>> Branch) can have a mandate based upon informed consent.
>>
>> If I was an American -- I'm a Canuck -- I would be worried about the
>> situation. Perhaps I have it bass-ackwards. But in wartime survival
>> dictates "my country right or wrong" but in peacetime democracy dictates
>> that the citizenry place democracy itself as the priority.
>>
>> David McKay
>>
>> *
>> *
>> ==========================================================
>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>> ------------------------------
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
>> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>>
>> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
>> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>>
>>
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
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> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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>
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> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 00:05:56 EST
> From: EVERETT813 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: The Question
>
> --part1_1a4.3119960f.2f39a2b4_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
> In a message dated 2/7/05 12:07:24 PM, fundaoral at ttnet.net.tr writes:
>
>
>> Harrison, the article has been very helpful to clear many concepts.
>> The thought that made me think most, that was striking for me, is the
>> following ;
>>=20
>> The Search for Fitness is, of course, the touchstone of Darwinian
>> evolutionary theory, although it is more usually rendered (incorrectly, I
>> think) as the survival of the fittest.=A0 The central point is that
>> there=20=
> is
>> present a "desire" to function at a higher level, and therefore a search
>> f=
> or
>> a better way to fit in with the surrounding world.
>> Those who fit better, survive better.
>>=20
>>=20
> Harrison, et. al.,
>
> Yes, and the above paragraph should be the core of a CEO/Leaders job=20
> description. Their task is to fit the organization to the emerging
> reality=
> in which=20
> they find themselves. How they choose to do that, or not do it,
> determines=
> =20
> whether or not they survive. They must be outward facing. That then
> impl=
> ies=20
> something, that the CEO/Leader must be Janus-faced because s/he must
> also=20
> face the organization (whether business, government, ngo, etc.) and
> discover=
> what=20
> needs to be changed to fit the outer reality better. Quite a task, imho.
> =20=
> =20
>
> Without a persistent internal guerilla group, Microsoft would have missed
> th=
> e=20
> importance of the internet. Think what that might have meant. Ditto
> 3M=20
> and Post-It's. Just a thought: maybe the job of the CEO/Leader is
> to=20
> encourage 'guerilla groups' all over the place because they might point to
> w=
> hat has=20
> to be changed to fit the emerging reality more quickly than any
> steering=20
> committee. Wild. Well, somewhat radical, anyway. :) =20
>
> Paul Everett=20
>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --part1_1a4.3119960f.2f39a2b4_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000"
> FACE=3D"Gen=
> eva" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
> In a message dated 2/7/05 12:07:24 PM, fundaoral at ttnet.net.tr writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE CITE STYLE=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT:
> 5px;=20=
> MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px" TYPE=3D"CITE"></FONT><FONT
> COLOR=3D"#0=
> 00000" FACE=3D"Geneva" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" SIZE=3D"2">Harrison, the
> article=
> has been very helpful to clear many concepts.<BR>
> The thought that made me think most, that was striking for me, is the<BR>
> following ;<BR>
> <BR>
> The Search for Fitness is, of course, the touchstone of Darwinian<BR>
> evolutionary theory, although it is more usually rendered (incorrectly,
> I<BR=
>>
> think) as the survival of the fittest.=A0 The central point is that there
> is=
> <BR>
> present a "desire" to function at a higher level, and therefore a search
> for=
> <BR>
> a better way to fit in with the surrounding world.<BR>
> Those who fit better, survive better.<BR>
> <BR>
> </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" FACE=3D"Geneva"
> FAMILY=3D"SANSSE=
> RIF" SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
> Harrison, et. al.,<BR>
> <BR>
> Yes, and the above paragraph should be the core of a CEO/Leaders job
> descrip=
> tion. Their task is to fit the organization to the emerging reality
> i=
> n which they find themselves. How they choose to do that, or not do
> i=
> t, determines whether or not they survive. They must be outward
> facin=
> g. That then implies something, that the CEO/Leader must be
> Janus-fac=
> ed because s/he must also face the organization (whether business,
> governmen=
> t, ngo, etc.) and discover what needs to be changed to fit the outer
> reality=
> better. Quite a task, imho. <BR>
> <BR>
> Without a persistent internal guerilla group, Microsoft would have missed
> th=
> e importance of the internet. Think what that might have
> meant. =
> Ditto 3M and Post-It's. Just a thought: maybe the job of
> the=
> CEO/Leader is to encourage 'guerilla groups' all over the place because
> the=
> y might point to what has to be changed to fit the emerging reality more
> qui=
> ckly than any steering committee. Wild. Well, somewhat
> radical=
> , anyway. :) <BR>
> <BR>
> Paul Everett </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" FACE=3D"Geneva"
> FAMILY=3D"SANSSE=
> RIF" SIZE=3D"2"></FONT></HTML>
> *
> *
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> -----------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> --part1_1a4.3119960f.2f39a2b4_boundary--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 21:54:44 -0800
> From: Chris Corrigan <chris.corrigan at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Open Space & Anti-Americanism
>
> Wow...Harrison. Thanks for this. It's a great piece to tuck in the
> hip pocket and remember in times of confidence crises. It reminds me
> of my role, in a really grounding way.
>
> Grateful as ever to your openings for all of us...
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 12:04:25 -0500, Harrison Owen <hhowen at comcast.net>
> wrote:
>> I am not quite sure how what I find myself thinking/writing here fits
>> into
>> the discussion of "Open Space & Anti-Americanism" -- but there is a
>> connection, I am sure. Maybe I will find it? :-)
>>
> --
> -------------------------
> CHRIS CORRIGAN
> Consultation - Facilitation
> Open Space Technology
>
> Weblog: http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot
> Site: http://www.chriscorrigan.com
>
> *
> *
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of OSLIST Digest - 6 Feb 2005 to 7 Feb 2005 (#2005-36)
> **********************************************************
>
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