An OS "critique" and response

Tue Aug 30 02:16:20 PDT 2005

I am not very much interested in Integral Theory, SD.. (not YET).

But from what i read in this discussion, i can combine Integral Theory and
OST.

i take a sentence from Jack Ricchiuto's recent mail

"the space where no one can control anything and everyone gains everything"

it seems to me this is where Integral Theory and OST  come together.

In my perception, i am getting more and more convinced that when we say "no
one
control anything "...this means

* leave people free in whatever form they are : circles, cones, arrow etc.
* trust them and trust everything .....don't control, interfere...if you
really want to do something all you can do is -maybe- to invite
as beautifully explained by michael herman

and then

*"everyone gains everything"...we don't know what they gain...we don' have
to measure it.

i personally believe that already gaining some space changes many things..

...a more healthy, balanced and integral change starts form a space.

Funda

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mr Guess" <mrguess at integralvisioning.org>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: An OS "critique" and response

> btw - I am not an expert or associate or anything else of Integral
> theory, or SD. Or OST. Im more of a non-specialist hack who generally
> likes to live things in order to know them, and kinda suddenly wish I
> hadn't spoken into such a loud microphone on all this.
>
> Besides, I've been an angry villager myself from time to time. Here and
> there. blush
>
> anyway
> I think one of Wilber's most important and intitially confusing as heck
> contributions thus far has been the perspectival all quadrants all lines
> (AQAL, which includes all waves all streams all types, etc...).
>
> as another highly useful measuring gizmo
>
> and because I think it really gracefully reintroduces the notion of a
> functioning engine of tiered hierarchies (such as they are in nature or
> an automobile), not only as it pertains to an actual practice and
> experiential unfolding along whatever chain of being there simply is,
> but as I/it/we grow and evolve equally in our everpresent inner, outer,
> collective and individual perspectives. Unfolding, further unpacking a
> language that can hold our unfolding perspectives of history and
> visionary thinking.
>
> And that's just a wild stabatit, as they they, on my part
>
> Then integrate the likes of Howard Gardener's multiple lines of
> intelligence, where, we can be aware of how each and everyone of our
> many lines of intelligence also grow and unfold along some chain of
> being, both individually and collectively, inwardly and outwardly, and
> in their ascending and descending and expanding waves, and what not.
>
> And then there is the distinction between temporary states and permenant
> stages of consciousness this whole time, such as peak and plateau
> experiences. Also, focusing not only on integrating OST sessions live,
> but dialogue forms and styles from an increasingly exotic blend of some
> of the world's deepest traditions, then sits them down with a wide
> variety of some of the most modern and post-modern thinkers and cultural
> creatives on the planet...often simply cuz they "showed up and wanted to
> talk...
>
> Ummm...a lot of things I missed
>
> plug em in and turn em up, I say..lol
> OST and II, along with other things
>
> Peace,
> Todd
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Karen
> Sella
> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:45 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: An OS "critique" and response
>
> Hi Tree,
>
> Although I can appreciate the sentiments expressed in your response to
> SD/Integral folks who are too simplistic/generalist and smug in their
> use of Integral/SDi developmental theories, as someone who appreciates
> and participates in the Integral and SDi communities, as well as OS, I
> want to assure you that there are "grown-ups" among the SD/Wilberites :)
>
> Warm regards,
> Karen
>
>
> Karen Sella
> www.luminacoaching.com
> 206.780.2998
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Tree
> Fitzpatrick
> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:07 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: An OS "critique" and response
>
> I echo Tim Weidman's response to Peggy's posts.
>
> I remind this list that Wilber's spin on Spiral Dynamics significantly
> distorts the Spiral Dynamics model.  Wilber has done a disservice to
> the great work embedded in Spiral Dynamics by getting so many of his
> followers to denigrate the green meme.  It creeps me out to see people
> lumping people and systems into the green meme, making the designation
> of 'green meme' similar to namecalling in a school yard.  I want to
> tell all those SD/Wilberites to grow up.
>
> Like Tim, I hate the way SD/Wilberites engage in one-upman-ship, but I
> am not above namecalling myself.
>
> Steve Banks must be below the green meme if he experienced three Open
> Space events and wrongly concluded that Open Space is green meme.
> Surely everyone on this list knows that Open Space fans are highly
> evolved, t-2 at a minimum and probably higher.  He is obviously
> threatened by the advanced tool that is Open Space, eh?!
>
> Your response is excellent, Peggy, although Banks  didn't really
> deserve a reasoned response.
>
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