An OS "critique" and response

Mr Guess mrguess at integralvisioning.org
Sun Aug 28 17:58:21 PDT 2005


Hi Tim

>From what I understand, there really is no "2t" group methods, except
perhaps to curiously and specifically simply observe all the radical
diversity in life, as it is (which is often where talk of deep
meditation practice comes in...or "doing" nothing). 2t simply INCLUDES
all "first tier methods."

I think a big part of "integral," is its inclusivity WITH the
capacity/willingness to also measure the different values (rather than
simply calling them all 100% equal in a non-measuring "flatland" sort of
way..which is the limited but wonderful gift of green). 

And so perhaps, at any given moment, 2nd tier "activity" can look like a
rave, a BBQ, a family reunion, the stock market, politics, religion, or
an OST session, etc... Because not only does it include the beautiful
"greenish" behaviour of OST and so many other multi-cultural and more
universal venues and ways of being, but acknowledges the partial values
of all the less-than-open "lower" behaviours as well, right as they are
in their stage of development. 

In this sense, I think, many OST practitioners are already "2nd tier
thinkers." History is full them too. imo, The newer label is a useful
post-modern tool. 

"2nd tier" seems to start where things get very very much more complex
than all previous stages, which is perhaps the unique new challenge for
what SDI and such calls "yellow." Every stage has its unique hurdles.

There are also notions of a "mean yellow," where even 2nd tier can get
spooky and overzealous (which is perhaps what some OST folks are
reacting to). I can understand this. 

As an example of "transcend and include," which is another sort of
"mantra" of integral theory, I include my awareness of and efforts with
opening ways of dialogue (such as OST) as a very vital component/module
of my personal "integral practice." 

I hope this helps 

Todd Guess
www.toddguess.com




-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Tim
Weidman
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 9:57 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: An OS "critique" and response

i would love to know what  group methods these int/sd community members 
consider 2t

On Aug 26, 2005, at 5:55 PM, Karen Sella wrote:

> Brilliant, Peggy! 
>  
> Thank you for taking the time to respond so generously and graciously 
> to Steve Banks.  I completely agree with you. 
>  
> For some time, I have offered the perspective that OS is 
> “2nd-tier“---the principles of OS transcending and including all the 
> potential 1st-tier interactions---to others in the Integral/SDi 
> community who share this misconception that OS is a “green” method.  
>  I have also introduced several “Integral/SDi” folks to Open Space as 
> a practical method congruent with 2nd-tier thinking that allows people

> to more readily embody/enact 2nd-tier, even convening a few Open Space

> events on their behalf, and I’m happy to say that some folks seem to 
> “get it,” even though there are still others who maintain that OS is 
> “green.” 
>  
> One theory I have about this misconception in the realm of integral is

> that most of the folks within the Integral/SDi communities who 
> maintain that OS is “green” have either not experience Open Space or 
> they have experienced Open Space where the center of gravity of the 
> group in the room is green and the “integral” folks in the room are 
> confusing the state/stage of the people in the room with the method
 
> i.e. the fact that folks may be primarily embodying green during an 
> Open Space event does not mean that the Open Space method is green, 
> just like “Spiral Wizards” tailoring their interactions for the 
> predominately green consciousness of an audience, does not mean that 
> they, the Spiral Wizards, are operating from green consciousness
   
>  
> In any case, suffice it to say that I really appreciate reading your 
> wonderfully articulated and educated written response.
>  
> Warm regards,
> Karen
>  
>  
> Karen Sella
> www.luminacoaching.com
> 206.780.2998
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of 
> Peggy Holman
> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 2:55 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: An OS "critique" and response
>  
> Hhmmmm, I notice the attachments aren't attached.  Here are links 
> instead:
>  
> From Steve Banks: 
> http://www.opencirclecompany.com/FromOpenSpaceToIntegralSpace.doc
>  
>  
> My response: http://www.opencirclecompany.com/IntegralOpenSpace.doc
>  
> still sunny in Seattle,
> Peggy
>  
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Peggy Holman
>> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 2:00 PM
>> Subject: [OSLIST] An OS "critique" and response
>>  
>> My friend, Tom Atlee, sent me the attached doc, From Open 
>> Space...egral Space.doc, by Steve Banks.  It struck me as so 
>> misinformed and error filled that I responded with Integral Open 
>> Space.doc.  
>>  
>> Thought you might find both the impressions of a neophyte and my 
>> response of interest.
>>  
>> from sunny Seattle,
>> Peggy
>>  
>> ________________________________
>>  Peggy Holman
>>  The Open Circle Company
>>  15347 SE 49th Place
>>  Bellevue, WA  98006
>>  (425) 746-6274
>>  
>> www.opencirclecompany.com
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