An OS "critique" and response

[Mr Guess]

Hello all

As a regular reader of this list, and reader of both SD and integral
theory, I just want to echo all the sentiments of Karen, here.  

And from what I have come to understand, I consider the OS community to
be a healthy healthy expression of what has been called the green meme
(which is a rare and highly needed thing in this world). Kudos to all
y'all. 

And from what I understand, where green gets "mean," is when, in its
noble universal embrace, it also rejects all notions of hierarchy (which
is ironically also less than the gift of the universal embrace of
"green"). 

Also, it seems to me that Ken Wilber's writings have got to be as widely
misunderstood as he is widely read. And most just don't seem to take (or
have) the time to investigate deep enough before they offer a critique
(which seems quite understandable to me). And they often offer a
critique based only on the first few impressions of "followers" and
students (or simple enjoyers), which is not very helpful or educational,
it seems.

One of the "mantras," if you will, of "Wilberites," is that "the map is
never the territory." And so accusations to the contrary might want to
take this into account, I suppose. 

Anyway, for whats its worth...

Regards,
Todd Guess
www.toddgues.com



-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Karen
Sella
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:45 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: An OS "critique" and response

Hi Tree,

Although I can appreciate the sentiments expressed in your response to
SD/Integral folks who are too simplistic/generalist and smug in their
use of Integral/SDi developmental theories, as someone who appreciates
and participates in the Integral and SDi communities, as well as OS, I
want to assure you that there are "grown-ups" among the SD/Wilberites :)

Warm regards,
Karen


Karen Sella
www.luminacoaching.com
206.780.2998



-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Tree
Fitzpatrick
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:07 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: An OS "critique" and response

I echo Tim Weidman's response to Peggy's posts.

I remind this list that Wilber's spin on Spiral Dynamics significantly
distorts the Spiral Dynamics model.  Wilber has done a disservice to
the great work embedded in Spiral Dynamics by getting so many of his
followers to denigrate the green meme.  It creeps me out to see people
lumping people and systems into the green meme, making the designation
of 'green meme' similar to namecalling in a school yard.  I want to
tell all those SD/Wilberites to grow up.

Like Tim, I hate the way SD/Wilberites engage in one-upman-ship, but I
am not above namecalling myself.

Steve Banks must be below the green meme if he experienced three Open
Space events and wrongly concluded that Open Space is green meme. 
Surely everyone on this list knows that Open Space fans are highly
evolved, t-2 at a minimum and probably higher.  He is obviously
threatened by the advanced tool that is Open Space, eh?!

Your response is excellent, Peggy, although Banks  didn't really
deserve a reasoned response.

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