Raffi, genocide and OST

Thu Apr 21 23:07:33 PDT 2005

Funda,
I know, that Estonian and Turkish langages are in a way parallel to each
other, so it may match also for your language. What Harrison writes is very
much true for our language, Estonian. We do have very artificial and
complicated constructions to get translated what other languages call future
and past. Our language has been thought to be too primitive, as we are
pretty handicapped to express the constructions of past and future.

The main concern in our grammar has been to express the NOW. The word for
this very moment is PARA-AEGU, which means at the best possible time.

I suppose there are many cultures and languages, which have understood the
magic of NOW and which try to do the expanding of our NOW as helpful as
possible.

Mikk Sarv, Estonia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Harrison Owen" <hhowen at comcast.net>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 12:29 AM
Subject: Re: Raffi, genocide and OST

> Ah -- Funda. Let me reveal a mystery to you. You just can't get away from
> NOW. It is all you have! Past is over, future hasn't happened yet. What
you
> got is NOW. And the only question (at least for me) is how big is your
NOW?
> If it is a tiny little "now" desperation quickly sets in. How are you
going
> to get everything (you want to do) squeezed into this anorexic
(pathetically
> thin) now? You can't! And the more you try the worse it gets.
>
> But there is an alternative. Just make your NOW BIGGER! It may sound a
> little weird, but with some effort (not to be confused with work), NOW
> becomes big enough to include what we call the Past and also the Future.
The
> Past, with all of its richness of experience (including the pain) is
always
> available. And the Future is not some far off thing -- but dreams coming
> into focus NOW. For me it is a matter of opening my (personal) space. You
> can do this in all sorts of ways, but (I hate to say it) Visualization can
> help! :-)
>
> Harrison
>
> Harrison Owen
> 7808 River Falls Drive
> Potomac, Maryland   20845
> Phone 301-365-2093
>
> Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
> Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
> Personal website http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hhowen/index.htm
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives Visit:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Funda
Oral
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 2:37 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: Raffi, genocide and OST
>
> Masud, Therese is right, this discussion makes a negative affect on me.
>
> Something that i have been observing is becoming more clear and
> i will try to share it with you.
>
> When we talk about the past, and we spend our enegry there...whether it's
> positive
> or negative..it becomes a lose of time and energy after some
> point....because we
> may skip NOW and neglect the needs of now...the same is valid for the
> future.
>
> This is also why i am doubtful about the methods such as visualization.
>
> Sometimes when i lose myself among different feelings ( positive,
negative)
> thinking about the past
> or dreaming about the future...i try to pull myself back to now....deal
with
> what is needed to be
> done now.
>
> Now....the kitchen needs to be cleaned, i am going.... ::))
> Funda
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Masud Sheikh" <masheikh at COGECO.CA>
> To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 2:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Raffi, genocide and OST
>
>
> > On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:01:01 -0700, Therese Fitzpatrick
> > >Funda, such an event would not be negative. .. it could be wonderful
> > >and life affirming.  And it could unleash new, positive initiatives in
> > >the world.
> > Please forgive me for reacting, Therese.
> > "Would not be negative....." - Is that not highly judgmental, Therese -
an
> > opinion expressed as fact?
> > Masud
> >
> > *
> > *
> > ==========================================================
> > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > ------------------------------
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> > view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
> >
> > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> >
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>

*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist

>From  Fri Apr 22 08:31:00 2005
Message-Id: <FRI.22.APR.2005.083100.0200.>
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:31:00 +0200
Reply-To: agneta.setterwall at telia.com
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: Agneta Setterwall <agneta.setterwall at telia.com>
Organization: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=E4ven_och_Korpen?=
Subject: Re: Raffi, genocide and OST
In-Reply-To: <001f01c546b9$3a02e710$6501a8c0 at harrison>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
 <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
 <title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Thank you Harrison - I just LOVE it when I get a short sermon like that
in the morning! 
Lovelovelove :-D 
Agneta 
 
Harrison Owen wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid001f01c546b9$3a02e710$6501a8c0 at harrison"
 type="cite">
 <pre wrap="">Ah -- Funda. Let me reveal a mystery to you. You just can't get away from
NOW. It is all you have! Past is over, future hasn't happened yet. What you
got is NOW. And the only question (at least for me) is how big is your NOW?
If it is a tiny little "now" desperation quickly sets in. How are you going
to get everything (you want to do) squeezed into this anorexic (pathetically
thin) now? You can't! And the more you try the worse it gets.

But there is an alternative. Just make your NOW BIGG<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:desperationquicklysetsin.Howareyougoingtogeteverything(youwanttodo)squeezedintothisanorexic(patheticallythin)now?Youcan't!Andthemoreyoutrytheworseitgets.Butthereisanalternative.JustmakeyourNOWBIGGER!Itmaysoundalittleweird,butwithsomeeffort(nottobeconfusedwithwork),NOWbecomesbigenoughtoincludewhatwecallthePastandalsotheFuture.ThePast,withallofitsrichnessofexperience(includingthepain)isalwaysavailable.AndtheFutureisnotsomefaroffthing--butdreamscomingintofocusNOW.Formeitisamatterofopeningmy(personal)space.Youcandothisinallsortsofways,but(Ihatetosayit)Visualizationcanhelp!:-)HarrisonHarrisonOwen7808RiverFallsDrivePotomac,Maryland20845Phone301-365-2093OpenSpaceTrainingwww.openspaceworld.comOpenSpaceInstitutewww.openspaceworld.orgPersonalwebsitehttp://mywebpages.comcast.net/hhowen/index.htmOSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDUTosubscribe,unsubscribe,changeyouroptions,viewthearchivesVisit:htt
p://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html-----OriginalMessage-----From:OSLIST[mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]OnBehalfOfFundaOralSent:Thursday,April21,20052:37PMTo:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDUSubject:Re:Raffi,genocideandOSTMasud,Thereseisright,thisdiscussionmakesanegativeaffectonme.Somethingthatihavebeenobservingisbecomingmoreclearandiwilltrytoshareitwithyou.Whenwetalkaboutthepast,andwespendourenegrythere...whetherit'spositiveornegative..itbecomesaloseoftimeandenergyaftersomepoint....becausewemayskipNOWandneglecttheneedsofnow...thesameisvalidforthefuture.Thisisalsowhyiamdoubtfulaboutthemethodssuchasvisualization.Sometimeswhenilosemyselfamongdifferentfeelings(positive,negative)thinkingaboutthepastordreamingaboutthefuture...itrytopullmyselfbacktonow....dealwithwhatisneededtobedonenow.Now....thekitchenneedstobecleaned,iamgoing....::))Funda-----OriginalMessage-----From:">" desperation quickly sets in. How are you going
to get everything (you want to do) squeezed into this anorexic (pathetically
thin) now? You can't! And the more you try the worse it gets.

But there is an alternative. Just make your NOW BIGGER! It may sound a
little weird, but with some effort (not to be confused with work), NOW
becomes big enough to include what we call the Past and also the Future. The
Past, with all of its richness of experience (including the pain) is always
available. And the Future is not some far off thing -- but dreams coming
into focus NOW. For me it is a matter of opening my (personal) space. You
can do this in all sorts of ways, but (I hate to say it) Visualization can
help! :-)

Harrison

Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Drive
Potomac, Maryland   20845
Phone 301-365-2093

Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
Personal website http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hhowen/index.htm
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives Visit:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Funda Oral
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 2:37 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: Raffi, genocide and OST

Masud, Therese is right, this discussion makes a negative affect on me.

Something that i have been observing is becoming more clear and
i will try to share it with you.

When we talk about the past, and we spend our enegry there...whether it's
positive
or negative..it becomes a lose of time and energy after some
point....because we
may skip NOW and neglect the needs of now...the same is valid for the
future.

This is also why i am doubtful about the methods such as visualization.

Sometimes when i lose myself among different feelings ( positive, negative)
thinking about the past
or dreaming about the future...i try to pull myself back to now....deal with
what is needed to be
done now.

Now....the kitchen needs to be cleaned, i am going.... ::))
Funda

----- Original Message -----
From: "</a>Masud Sheikh" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:masheikh at COGECO.CA"><masheikh at COGECO.CA></a>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU"><OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU></a>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: Raffi, genocide and OST

  </pre>
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre wrap="">On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:01:01 -0700, Therese Fitzpatrick
    </pre>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">Funda, such an event would not be negative. .. it could be wonderful
and life affirming.  And it could unleash new, positive initiatives in
the world.
      </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre wrap="">Please forgive me for reacting, Therese.
"Would not be negative....." - Is that not highly judgmental, Therese - an
opinion expressed as fact?
Masud

*
*
==========================================================
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:">oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a>

To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a>

    </pre>
  </blockquote>
  <pre wrap=""><!---->
*
*
==========================================================
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:">oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a>

To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a>

*
*
==========================================================
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:">oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a>

To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a>

  </pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>
*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist