FW: 1st OS in Vietnam

Tue Apr 12 15:01:24 PDT 2005

Michaël Molenaar wrote: Is it only about caring? For some it also the
opportunity.

Not to put too fine a point on it -- but at some level I think we make our
own opportunities. I have certainly seen people surmount incredible
obstacles to be where they cared to be. And at the end of the day, that is
what really counts for me. Call it real commitment, or something.

Harrison

Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Drive
Potomac, Maryland   20845
Phone 301-365-2093

Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
Personal website http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hhowen/index.htm
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-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of
Michaël-SYSt
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 5:14 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: FW: 1st OS in Vietnam

Dear all,

Harrison wrote: "Lots of people "could have come" but only a certain number
really cared (enough) to come."

Is it only about caring? For some it also the opportunity.
So it seems to me that Open Space really starts before the event. And that
all who care are given the real opportunity to come.
And to give a place for those who didn't come for some reason. So give a
place for those who wanted to come, but could not (for a real reason}.

(hoping for a good opportunity to come to a OSONOS in the future, so it's a
personal thing too)

Best wishes,

________________________
Michaël Molenaar
Systemisch Consult
Tilburg - Holland
michael at syst.nl
Website: www.syst.nl
Tel: +31 (0)13 5770070
GSM +31 (0)6 51561095
________________________

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] Namens Harrison Owen
Verzonden: dinsdag 12 april 2005 20:36
Aan: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Onderwerp: Re: [OSLIST] FW: 1st OS in Vietnam

Masud Wrote: Do we need to use "right" or "appropriate" for people?
If we say "whatever happened is the only thing that could have happened"
(if I remember the words correctly) why can we not also say; "Whoever came
are the only people who could have come"

********************
I suppose we could -- but that would miss the point, I think. Lots of people
"could have come" but only a certain number really cared (enough) to come.
And besides, they are the only ones present :-). Their "care" makes them the
right/appropriate/present people. And in my book, it is the "caring" that
counts. That doesn't make all the other "possibles" bad, evil, immoral, or
ugly -- they just didn't care enough to come. Maybe next time????

Harrison

Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Drive
Potomac, Maryland   20845
Phone 301-365-2093

Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
Personal website http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hhowen/index.htm
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives Visit:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Masud
Sheikh
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:54 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: FW: 1st OS in Vietnam

Do we need to use "right" or "appropriate" for people?
If we say "whatever happened is the only thing that could have happened"
(if I remember the words correctly) why can we not also say;

"Whoever came are the only people who could have come"
Masud

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:28:45 -0700, Elwin and Joan elwinandjoan at yahoo.com>
wrote:

>--- Harrison Owen <hhowen at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Idiomatic language is devilishly hard to translate,
>> and I suspect idiomatic (colloquial) English is the worst offender.
>I
>> opted for "right" = "appropriate." Sounded good to me. What do you
>> think?
>
>Harrison,
>
>I think you did the "right" thing!  Since 90% of my OST is in former
>USSR countries I am constantly asked the same question(s) about the
>terms used in the Four Principles.  Again, you did the right...err
>"appropriate" thing.
>
>
>
>Elwin Guild
>Future Development International
>Baltimore
>elwinandjoan at yahoo.com

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>From  Tue Apr 12 22:01:34 2005
Message-Id: <TUE.12.APR.2005.220134.0400.>
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 22:01:34 -0400
Reply-To: john at theexperiment.info
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: john engle <englejohn at hotmail.com>
Subject: access
In-Reply-To: <004801c53f8e$89aab860$6501a8c0 at harrison>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

or maybe those who couldn't come were:

1) modern day slaves - there's tens of millions of them around the world
2) too hungry and weak to be aware of the meeting and to get there - there's
hundreds of millions or more in this category
3) too humiliated because they were part of the wrong social class and knew
that there would be people who did not make them feel welcome because of
their accent, color of skin, state of their clothes, lack of education,
coming from the wrong family or ethnic background, etc. - again, hundreds of
millions in this category
4) were behind prison bars, be they guilty or not guilty of a crime
5) know that they could not travel because of roadblocks, checkpoints,
general insecurity
6) unable to read the invitation - last credible stats i read were that
nearly one billion of the world's population does not read in their mother
tongue
7) unable to even conceive of having the luxury of time for a half day or
day long meeting given they work 6 days a week and make less than US$1 per
day - again, a good portion of the world.

and while many among these seven categories might overlap, i'm sure that
others on this list could come up with other categories of people who don't
have the luxury of "caring" for anything beyond survival in the moment.

is there a way that we who are on this oslist, who might not be subject to
any of the above conditions/restrictions can make sure that we're forever
aware of people who would love to have the luxury of being a part of these
wonderful experiences in os that we've all had? how do we do this? so many
of you have been involved in making os experiences accessible to people who
are normally the outcasts of society.... lisa heft, kerry, joelle, harrison,
peggy, chris, doug... fortunately, the list is long. and let's commit
ourselves to continue to push the envelope on this one.

john

http://JohnEngle.blogspot.com - Reflections about Haiti, life, and our work.
http://JohnEngle.info
http://TheExperiment.info

>From: Harrison Owen <hhowen at comcast.net>
>Reply-To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
>To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>Subject: Re: FW: 1st OS in Vietnam
>Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:36:24 -0400
>
>Masud Wrote: Do we need to use "right" or "appropriate" for people?
>If we say "whatever happened is the only thing that could have happened"
>(if I remember the words correctly) why can we not also say; "Whoever came
>are the only people who could have come"
>
>********************
>I suppose we could -- but that would miss the point, I think. Lots of
>people
>"could have come" but only a certain number really cared (enough) to come.
>And besides, they are the only ones present :-). Their "care" makes them
>the
>right/appropriate/present people. And in my book, it is the "caring" that
>counts. That doesn't make all the other "possibles" bad, evil, immoral, or
>ugly -- they just didn't care enough to come. Maybe next time????
>
>Harrison
>
>Harrison Owen
>7808 River Falls Drive
>Potomac, Maryland   20845
>Phone 301-365-2093
>
>Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
>Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
>Personal website http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hhowen/index.htm
>OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives Visit:
>http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Masud
>Sheikh
>Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:54 PM
>To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>Subject: Re: FW: 1st OS in Vietnam
>
>Do we need to use "right" or "appropriate" for people?
>If we say "whatever happened is the only thing that could have happened"
>(if I remember the words correctly) why can we not also say;
>
>"Whoever came are the only people who could have come"
>Masud
>
>On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:28:45 -0700, Elwin and Joan elwinandjoan at yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
> >--- Harrison Owen <hhowen at comcast.net> wrote:
> >> Idiomatic language is devilishly hard to translate,
> >> and I suspect idiomatic (colloquial) English is the worst offender.
> >I
> >> opted for "right" = "appropriate." Sounded good to me. What do you
> >> think?
> >
> >Harrison,
> >
> >I think you did the "right" thing!  Since 90% of my OST is in former
> >USSR countries I am constantly asked the same question(s) about the
> >terms used in the Four Principles.  Again, you did the right...err
> >"appropriate" thing.
> >
> >
> >
> >Elwin Guild
> >Future Development International
> >Baltimore
> >elwinandjoan at yahoo.com
>
>*
>*
>==========================================================
>OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>------------------------------
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
>view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
>http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
>To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
>http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>
>*
>*
>==========================================================
>OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>------------------------------
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
>view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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>
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