speaking with Lena Marchuk and more

Michael Herman mherman at globalchicago.net
Mon May 31 11:29:21 PDT 2004


oh my... siberia!  well, i think i talk too much about invitations to
turn any down -- especially this one!  so let's email off the list and
figure out what would work. i'm glad to come if it would be any help. if
nothing else, we work on the text things. mailto:mherman at globalchicago.net

thanks!

michaelh



Elena A. Marchuk wrote:

>I'm glad, we came to agreement... is seems, just kidding, and still thank
>you for your thoughts!
>Michael,
>I've heard from Peggy Holman a couple of years ago, that you were ready to
>come to Siberia... aren't you now?
>welcome.... and I love your text book for training for OS though Joelle did
>not allow me to make a copy of it without your permission even when I told
>her that I can not use it in Russia without translation and for using I will
>ask your permission. What do  you think of coming, of preparing your
>textbook in Russian...
>and thank you again for your great work and support.
>best wishes
>elena
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Michael Herman" <mherman at globalchicago.net>
>To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
>Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 11:42 PM
>Subject: Re: speaking with Lena Marchuk and more
>
>
>
>
>>yes, exactly, elena! this is the clarity and the punchline that i did
>>not quite get to in my long posting... thank you!  we just do what we
>>can.  it's all space.  and as we open ourselves, we open more of it, for
>>everyone.  little bit, little bit, little bit... merrily merrily
>>merrily... <grin>  michaelh
>>
>>
>>
>>Elena A. Marchuk wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hi Raffi,
>>>just do it... OS is the great technology and I use it with my great
>>>
>>>
>love...
>
>
>>>you can not solve the problems of people untill they start to solve them
>>>
>>>
>themselves...
>
>
>>>just do what you can and how you can help, and the 'holding the space' is
>>>
>>>
>what sometimes people need though... they don't feel you are making the
>great deal...
>
>
>>>don't worry, be happy
>>>best wishes
>>>elena
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Raffi Aftandelian
>>> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 6:44 PM
>>> Subject: Re: speaking with Lena Marchuk and more
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Harrison, Lena, and anyone else who has survived (like me!)
>>>
>>>
>scrolling through lots of html (aargh!) in their OSlist message,
>
>
>>> Thank you for your replies. For me, there are several ways to reach the
>>>
>>>
>unspeakable, as Tova Averbuch put it. What we as a
>group/community/organization want to achieve. It is hard for me to fathom
>that OS is THE way.
>
>
>>> On a gut level, I know that offering OS to organizations is part of my
>>>
>>>
>path, not the whole path. And my questions, doubts about OS help bring me to
>a more nuanced and careful yet passionate and interested place (in my
>attitude towards the technology).
>
>
>>> I think it is hard to say at this point if OS "works" or doesn't work
>>>
>>>
>here in Russia. While a lot of different people use OS, there isn't yet a
>virtual community of Russian-speaking OS'ers. We had a listserv; and Elena
>liked my nickname for us: "the silent community". That was because no one
>posted. I attribute the non-posting and non-existence of a Russian-speaking
>OS community -- real or virtual-- mostly to a lack of trust overall in the
>former Soviet Union. It is hard for me not to have judgement about this,
>because I have essentially chosen to make Russia my home. Maybe at some
>point I'll want to go back to what I call Bushastan (hence its citizens are
>Bushastanis, pardon the phrase). So, I think the verdict is out. One of the
>values of OS and FS here, I think, is that these approaches build up that
>key ingredient between people: trust.
>
>
>>> In terms of OS working (while all the pre-work conditions you describe
>>>
>>>
>happen), that's an important point. Risking making a generalization, I think
>that level of thoroughness does not happen. In other words, I work really
>hard with clients so that these conditions (doing the preparation work
>fully) are observed and it is rare that I feel it has been done adequately.
>
>
>>> But I do think there may be something to OS being "oversold" as a
>>>
>>>
>mentor and colleague put it. I am not sure I can develop the thought. As an
>analogy, I think of NLP. Now, I have never been trained in NLP, but I have
>read a number of books by its "founders" and have a friend and colleague who
>consciously uses NLP as an English teacher and interpreter. Initially, the
>NLP crowd poo-poo'd other therapeutic approaches, specifically humanistic
>ones. That therapists kept clients for years dealing with problems that
>could be solved in a single session. Now that may have true, but NLP in
>psychotherapy is not the answer to everything.
>
>
>>> And I am not sure OS is the answer to everything even when the basic
>>>
>>>
>conditions- presence of passion, space "open", etc.- are met. But I am
>loving the exploration for now and I do it with heart!
>
>
>>> On a side note, is there any way of setting up receiving the OSlist
>>>
>>>
>digest so that I just get text and no html code?
>
>
>>> Best,
>>> Raffi
>>> * * ==========================================================
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>--
>>
>>Michael Herman
>>Michael Herman Associates
>>300 West North Avenue #1105
>>Chicago IL 60610 USA
>>(312) 280-7838
>>
>>http://www.michaelherman.com - consulting & publications
>>http://www.globalchicago.net - laboratory & playground
>>http://www.openspaceworld.org - worldwide open space
>>
>>...inviting organization into movement
>>
>>*
>>*
>>==========================================================
>>OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
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>>
>
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--

Michael Herman
Michael Herman Associates
300 West North Avenue #1105
Chicago IL 60610 USA
(312) 280-7838

http://www.michaelherman.com - consulting & publications
http://www.globalchicago.net - laboratory & playground
http://www.openspaceworld.org - worldwide open space

...inviting organization into movement

*
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