speaking with Lena Marchuk and more

Sun May 30 20:00:05 PDT 2004

I'm glad, we came to agreement... is seems, just kidding, and still thank
you for your thoughts!
Michael,
I've heard from Peggy Holman a couple of years ago, that you were ready to
come to Siberia... aren't you now?
welcome.... and I love your text book for training for OS though Joelle did
not allow me to make a copy of it without your permission even when I told
her that I can not use it in Russia without translation and for using I will
ask your permission. What do  you think of coming, of preparing your
textbook in Russian...
and thank you again for your great work and support.
best wishes
elena
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Herman" <mherman at globalchicago.net>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: speaking with Lena Marchuk and more


> yes, exactly, elena! this is the clarity and the punchline that i did
> not quite get to in my long posting... thank you!  we just do what we
> can.  it's all space.  and as we open ourselves, we open more of it, for
> everyone.  little bit, little bit, little bit... merrily merrily
> merrily... <grin>  michaelh
>
>
>
> Elena A. Marchuk wrote:
>
> >Hi Raffi,
> >just do it... OS is the great technology and I use it with my great
love...
> >you can not solve the problems of people untill they start to solve them
themselves...
> >just do what you can and how you can help, and the 'holding the space' is
what sometimes people need though... they don't feel you are making the
great deal...
> >don't worry, be happy
> >best wishes
> >elena
> >
> >  ----- Original Message -----
> >  From: Raffi Aftandelian
> >  To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> >  Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 6:44 PM
> >  Subject: Re: speaking with Lena Marchuk and more
> >
> >
> >  Dear Harrison, Lena, and anyone else who has survived (like me!)
scrolling through lots of html (aargh!) in their OSlist message,
> >
> >  Thank you for your replies. For me, there are several ways to reach the
unspeakable, as Tova Averbuch put it. What we as a
group/community/organization want to achieve. It is hard for me to fathom
that OS is THE way.
> >
> >  On a gut level, I know that offering OS to organizations is part of my
path, not the whole path. And my questions, doubts about OS help bring me to
a more nuanced and careful yet passionate and interested place (in my
attitude towards the technology).
> >
> >  I think it is hard to say at this point if OS "works" or doesn't work
here in Russia. While a lot of different people use OS, there isn't yet a
virtual community of Russian-speaking OS'ers. We had a listserv; and Elena
liked my nickname for us: "the silent community". That was because no one
posted. I attribute the non-posting and non-existence of a Russian-speaking
OS community -- real or virtual-- mostly to a lack of trust overall in the
former Soviet Union. It is hard for me not to have judgement about this,
because I have essentially chosen to make Russia my home. Maybe at some
point I'll want to go back to what I call Bushastan (hence its citizens are
Bushastanis, pardon the phrase). So, I think the verdict is out. One of the
values of OS and FS here, I think, is that these approaches build up that
key ingredient between people: trust.
> >
> >  In terms of OS working (while all the pre-work conditions you describe
happen), that's an important point. Risking making a generalization, I think
that level of thoroughness does not happen. In other words, I work really
hard with clients so that these conditions (doing the preparation work
fully) are observed and it is rare that I feel it has been done adequately.
> >
> >  But I do think there may be something to OS being "oversold" as a
mentor and colleague put it. I am not sure I can develop the thought. As an
analogy, I think of NLP. Now, I have never been trained in NLP, but I have
read a number of books by its "founders" and have a friend and colleague who
consciously uses NLP as an English teacher and interpreter. Initially, the
NLP crowd poo-poo'd other therapeutic approaches, specifically humanistic
ones. That therapists kept clients for years dealing with problems that
could be solved in a single session. Now that may have true, but NLP in
psychotherapy is not the answer to everything.
> >
> >  And I am not sure OS is the answer to everything even when the basic
conditions- presence of passion, space "open", etc.- are met. But I am
loving the exploration for now and I do it with heart!
> >
> >  On a side note, is there any way of setting up receiving the OSlist
digest so that I just get text and no html code?
> >
> >  Best,
> >  Raffi
> >  * * ==========================================================
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>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
> 300 West North Avenue #1105
> Chicago IL 60610 USA
> (312) 280-7838
>
> http://www.michaelherman.com - consulting & publications
> http://www.globalchicago.net - laboratory & playground
> http://www.openspaceworld.org - worldwide open space
>
> ...inviting organization into movement
>
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