mental meanderings and self-organization

[Meg Salter]

Hi Ralph and Julie
First off, I don't work much in the education system (first caveat) - unless
you count two kids in school!
If self-organizations is present since the big bang - is in fact how
evolution/ consciousness works.... then the seeing of this says more about
the seer than anything else. Gravity was always been there - it took a
certain mindset to develop theories around it. Self-organization is always
present - it takes a certain mindset to talk about the world that way. So I
actually don't think of self-organizing as going back to a natural harmony,
but going forward to our future potential. (..our past has not, as a
speices, actually been very harmonious).

Some interesting questions:
- Who is the self that does the organizing? (In the Boids example, it is
actually the computer modeller acting outside the system that sets the
parameters of the program. So yes, simple rules can yield complex results,
but this particular model does Not demonstrate novelty or creativity.) In
the education assumptions you talked about it is probably the teacher who
does most of the organizing. In most big corporations that I work with it is
the Boss who (attempts) much of the organizing.
- What/ who is it that is being organized? The lesson plan/ work flow? the
strategy? the participation? I think of it as ' how wide is the scope of the
net/web...?'
How might this vary with the students/ grade level.....? or with the
experience/ mandate of the teacher?
In OST terms, this is like defining the scope, themes and givens.
..........my meanderings joining yours!

Meg Salter

MegaSpace Consulting
416/486-6660
meg.salter at sympatico.ca
www.megaspaceconsulting.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Smith" <jsmith at mosquitonet.com>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: mental meanderings and self-organization


> Thanks Ralph,
>
> Yes of course I agree with you.  But could you tell me again how it is
> that we get back in harmony with the natural order?
>
> Really.  Brass tacks.  Or, if you like, a pig's ear (softer, more
> pliable and reslient, you know..... though perhaps less to the point
> :)..... and also somewhat thoreauian, though I can never remember the
> quote....)
>
> I work for a school system.  With teachers.  With students.  I don't see
> much self-organizing going on in schools.  Or rather, I don't see
> open/safe/voluntary/equal self-organizing happening.  I see some
> harmony, and also significant dis-harmony.  And not much that feels
> natural to me.
>
> Can we accept as a given that we'll be starting where we are?  Is it
> enough, do you suppose, to simply take the next step as it presents
> itself?  Help open space wherever and however I can?  (Don't bother
> answering that one. Too easy. Been there, doing that, marvelous
> results.)
>
> Things get more murky and muddled for me (and for people who are
> teachers) when I'm presented with the expectation that I TEACH
> something..... or should I say, that I teach SOMETHING.  You know, those
> times when I'm the Expert with ImportantInformationToImpart to
> PeopleWhoNeedIt.
>
> I could stop accepting that role of Expert Imparter of Information.  But
> that doesn't really answer the question.  What about all of our teachers
> and all of our students?  How can we structure learning that is in
> harmony with the natural order?  I know I keep asking this question.....
> I just haven't quite gotten it right yet.
>
> How do we teach our children algebra?  Or does my question assume too
> much already?  Do we need to teach?  Do we need to teach algebra?  When
> all else falls away, what is it that we need to think/speak/do in the
> world?
>
> I'm getting ready for another open space with teachers next Saturday.
> We ran out of time last week and forgot to define a theme for this week.
> So now it's up to me.  In pondering and reading this weekend, I thought
> about defining the theme like this:  "What do I believe about children?
> What do I believe about education?  What do I believe about educating
> children?"  I'm pulled toward inviting discussion about the core beliefs
> that guide our actions.
>
> There's just too much empty-open space in my head.... ideas just keep
> bouncing around and landing in unusual places......
>
> Julie
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Ralph
> > Copleman
> > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 9:28 AM
> > To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > Subject: Re: mental meanderings and self-organization
> >
> > Julie,
> >
> > See the story of the universe, how everything moved forward creating
> > itself.
> > See evolution on planet Earth and how life learned to diversify and
> make
> > ever-more complex and capable life forms by following a few simple
> rules.
> >
> > Now see how far we humans have gotten away from the lessons of the
> > self-organizing universe over the past several hundred years.
> >
> > Learning "theory" for me is about getting back into harmony with the
> > natural
> > order.  Could it be that simple?
> >
> > Marv Weisbord said to me once, we've sold ourselves a bill of goods,
> and
> > it's a long way home.
> >
> > Ralph Copleman
> >
> > *
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