A Question about self-organizing systems

Thu Jan 31 21:32:44 PST 2002

Hi Doris,

reading your post, I felt that you spoke about inseparable
contradictions, which can not lead us to interesting results, if they
are separated & discussed in an either-or-(yes/no; true-not true)
ways. So your posting brought me back to my own head-clearing (in my
first contribution to that thread).

Related to what you wrote, i felt very often during my work as a
facilitator:

1. The facilitator (eg. i) is inside and (>&<) outside.
This seems to be the basis of his/her influence, even if she/he
avoids to get power: a voyager over the limits of systems.

a). The facilitator is one of the elements of self-organization
insofar he/she is inside.
>&<
b) The facilitator, coming from outside and going into the background
whenever possible, and finally going back to the systems environment
is no element of self-organization
(it would not make sense for me to speak of self-organization,
dealing with elements of the system's environmental system, we would
loose "the other (systems)").

2. It is a hoax/swindle and (>&<) it is not
If it is the right way of swindling, the process will show that it is
truth at a deeper level.
It never works, if not with your heart: swindling with compassion?

3. Self-organization needs an environment that is conducive and (>&<)
Self-organization needs an environmant that is not conducive
In the discussion about space organization in its physical sense:
stools, fixed tables, breaking out from the conference room, dancing
over to better conditions... I read lots of examples for this apory.

Without need to "fight for X" I never found relevant
self-organization

Here in development cooperation contexts in southern africa, where I
actually do most of my work , there is always this discussion about
commitment of the nationals and I had to learn: even (or especially)
under conditions of "lack of conditions", if I try to be only
conducive, this fits into a paternalistic frame of relationsships. My
clients lean back and let me do. Not fine. No commitment. No effort
to materialize the vision. Waiting for somebody who will improve the
conditions, improve the conditions... G-d?
(I gave such an example when I presented my first OS experiences in
Sofala province).

Holding the space
is it:
Holding such tensions?
Caring for the right level of energy?

Expanding our "Here & Now"
is it
connecting inside >&<outside
without destroying the difference?

My heart feels
these concepts
are helpful on my journey
of learning how to deal with apories
in large group facilitation

Thank you Doris
Bernhard

-----------
P.S. I do not know if I can contribute here at the moment
(because I feel that many of the lists participants do not need such
complicated ways of arranging their thoughts; I am still organizing
my rucksack for the journey with this list)

but I shure as hell DO LEARN a lot here
My feet feel well on this ground

Thank's to all of you
wb

On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:57:24 +0100, Doris Gottlieb wrote:
>Hi,
>I've been following the line of Birgitt and others regarding world
>Peace and
>facilitation and a nagging question keeps coming into my mind
>regarding
>Self-Organizing systems. My question is:
>
>"If systems self-organize, isn't it possible that the facilitator's
>role is
>one of the elements in self-organization????" Why is that seen as
>something
>outside the realm of "self-organization?"
>
>I find when I read the postings on this I get a nagging feeling,
>that the
>helping, or holding role that I think I take up in most of my
>facilitation
>is like some sort of swindle or hoax or that it is less useful or
>important
>than all of those other things going on at any one time. I wonder if
>anything can "self-organize" in an environment that isn't conducive
>to
>it...isn't the work we do facilitating Open Space or Open Space
>Technology
>(however you choose to call what we do) partly about creating that
>environment???
>
>Doris Gottlieb
>
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-----
Bernd Weber wb-trainconsult at gmx.net
01.02.2002 at 06:45:02 (GMT/UT + 02:00)

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