Turtle (way of warrior)

[Toni Petrinovich]

Artur, thank you for picking up my thread, also.  Since I wrote it, I read on CNN that Jesse Jackson has been asked by the UN Taliban representative (interesting that there is a UN Taliban rep since we have "officially" said that we do not recognize their government) to negotiate peace.  No matter what anyone's political affiliation may be, you can look at Jesse's record for peace and hostage negotiation and congratulate him on a job well done.  In another article, it is stated that many of the Taliban soldiers and military are leaving the country - they do not wish to fight.

There is so much more going on here than simply war and peace.  Let us hold ourselves in a space that IS the realm of all possibilities and not so easily walk away as though nothing is going on.  We are in the midst of the most important moment in history, IMHO, when mankind can turn the tide of thousands of years of war and oppression and link hands across oceans, continents and political systems.  Let us keep our eyes and hearts fastened on that which is happening with us, for us and by us.  Now is not the time to pretend it is business as usual.

Blessings, Toni
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Artur F. Silva 
  To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU 
  Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 2:16 PM
  Subject: Re: Turtle (way of warrior)


  Dear OS-comunity:

  [Sorry if this message disturbs some of you]

  At 14:17 26-09-2001, John Dicus wrote:


    (...) She said to walk the circle
    clockwise, hearing from the four voices in the unending sequence of a
    learning spiral.  If we become stuck at any one point, she said, we should
    back up a quarter turn before moving on.  So, what does teacher need to say
    before we can go forward from warrior... to vision to healing to....?  In
    this spiraling, the way of the turtle (wisdom) grows it's voice as well.


    If any of you have never seen Paula's works, her teaching book "Who Speaks
    For Wolf" would be a good read right now.  In short, it's about a people
    who decided to move their village to a more fertile area but forgot to hear
    the voice of wolf in their council circle.  When they moved, they moved
    smack dab into wolf's territory.  After being harassed by wolves for a few
    months, they decided that either they had to kill all the wolves or move
    back. They decided to move back since the other choice was unconscionable.
    So -- who speaks for wolf?

  I read this initial message about the turtle and though it was very well 
  observed, and I prepared myself to see the answers. Who would speak 
  for the ones that have no voice in the "council circle"; the ones who's 
  land one wants to occupy or to bomb (the ones that were once the
  native Americans, later from Vietnam, later from Serbia, and today are 
  from Afghanistan, it seems (*)? Who would speak for the wolf?

  And also who would understand that when one is stuck in the warrior 
  position one needs to go back to the teacher position, and investigate the 
  world from a new point of view until one can go on again. If not, one will 
  be a soldier, not a warrior - much less one that cares for the four ways,
  (and the center of the circle - the turtle position...)

  Then I become quite sad and disturbed when I have discovered that 
  the wolf's voice was understood not as the voice of the *other*, the
  dispossessed of voice, but as "the wolf within us", a much lesser 
  dignifying wolf, indeed.

  But that is not strange. The first revenge/relief response planned by 
  the US government has been delayed due to criticisms from European
  partners, Islamic countries and "people that spoke for the wolf". At this
  moment a war is already in place -- but it is a war in the media, to 
  convince the American people and other partners that must be done 
  what has already been decided. (But Pakistan will have the debt 
  cancelled and maybe Cashmere; Russians will have Chechnya and the 
  North of Afghanistan; and the weapon producers will sell a lot more 
  weapons. And USA will behave as always. More of the same...)

  The voices that once spoke for the (real) wolf have been stopped - and 
  today even the meaning of the "wolf" is changed. Someone referred 1984?

  Precisely when a paradigm change and a new world view are, imo, 
  most needed, the wiser between us are progressively accepting the 
  "war propaganda". Precisely when the "good" questions would be 
  - "Why are some people so angry with us to do so terrible things?", 
  - "what have we been doing wrong all this time?", 
  - "have we shown any respect for other peoples?", 
  - "can we be respected by other countries when we accept the death 
     penalty within our borders?" (can a Christian accept that, or must 
    one consider that this is the type of question where a Christian must 
    show that he can also be a WARRIOR?)" 
  - or, even, "why do we consider natural that the others must speak our 
    language and we don't even try to speak theirs?" (Do you remember 
    that even in a so open environment as our own, the open space site 
    at www.openspaceworl.org was "English only" only one year ago... 
    (The world speaks English...)

  I am sorry for asking those questions in a so painfull moment. But those 
  are truly the questions that even most of the American supporters in Europe 
  ask themselves every day, not to speak about the countries that have 
  been bombed by the USA.  And those are also, imho, the questions 
  America MUST think about in this moment. And if America as a whole
  will not think about it, those are the questions that I must ask clearly to 
  my American friends. Please, think about them, now!

  And, as one could expect, the voices that speak for the wolf will be 
  less and less heard, then less and less accepted, and, later, more and 
  more criticized, until they will be silenced or persecuted. In a time of 
  war the ones that don't agree with us are probably on the side of our 
  enemies, are enemies themselves -- they must be controlled, arrested, 
  or even killed. 

  The war closes the space. War always closes the space. War is 
  the contrary of Open Space.

  "Whoever comes and agrees with us is the right people"  will
  become the new version of the "principle" in all the countries involved...

  The problem with this war is that it will encompasses all the world, 
  and all the forums, including this one. I inicially agreed with those 
  that alerted us that, from now on, discussing war can be dangerous 
  for the OS community. And I was almost decided to consider the thread
  over for me and apply the law of two feet in relation with terrorism, 
  war and warriors. 

  [It was a pity because I am preparing a text with my own experience 
  with terrorism - the experience of the Portuguese colonialism, of 
  the terrorism it implied against the African peoples of the colonies
  and within Portugal itself; and how this have conducted to African 
  terrorism (beginning with UPA in Angola - by the way supported by 
  the Americans) and later to the Portuguese democratic revolution 
  and the independence of the ex-colonies. And how the Occident had 
  already managed to introduce terrorism within those countries that 
  are today devastated by competing armies - all armed by occidental 
  countries. ] 

  But then I saw  Toni Petrinovich's message that ended with:

  With peace in my heart, love for mankind and a prayer that we do not easily walk away from this discussion when it is exactly what those who wish to fight us are hoping for

  and that can be also true. 

  Since the attack we are all living terrible moments - and terrible moments 
  can be an inhibitor for learning and changing. But they can also be a good 
  moment for "emerging crativity" and change of paradigms, that are sometimes 
  (or always?) painful... 

  Please believe I am really sorry for all the victims of the attacks and their 
  families and relatives. And also sorry for the fact that such dificult questions 
  have to be answered by each of you, at least in your heart, at this so dificcult 
  moment. And believe that what I wrote comes only from the great consideration 
  I have for this community - it comes only from passion and responsability.

  Warm regards

  Artur

  (*) In the NATO's meeting of Defense Ministers, yesterday, the representative
  of USA produced no proof of the involvement of Bin Laden or Al-Quaed
  in the terrorist attacks. When questioned about that by the media he answered:
  "I can show you again the film (of the two crashes); do you need any other
  proof?" Do we?



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