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<DIV><EM><FONT face=Garamond color=#800080 size=4>Artur, thank you for picking
up my thread, also. Since I wrote it, I read on CNN that Jesse Jackson has
been asked by the UN Taliban representative (interesting that there is a UN
Taliban rep since we have "officially" said that we do not recognize their
government) to negotiate peace. No matter what anyone's political
affiliation may be, you can look at Jesse's record for peace and hostage
negotiation and congratulate him on a job well done. In another article,
it is stated that many of the Taliban soldiers and military are leaving the
country - they do not wish to fight.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=Garamond color=#800080 size=4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=Garamond color=#800080 size=4>There is so much more going on
here than simply war and peace. Let us hold ourselves in a space that IS
the realm of all possibilities and not so easily walk away as though nothing is
going on. We are in the midst of the most important moment in history,
IMHO, when mankind can turn the tide of thousands of years of war and oppression
and link hands across oceans, continents and political systems. Let us
keep our eyes and hearts fastened on that which is happening with us, for us and
by us. Now is not the time to pretend it is business as
usual.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=Garamond color=#800080 size=4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=Garamond color=#800080 size=4>Blessings,
Toni</FONT></EM></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #800080 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=artsilva@mail.eunet.pt href="mailto:artsilva@mail.eunet.pt">Artur F.
Silva</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 27, 2001 2:16
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Turtle (way of
warrior)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Dear OS-comunity:<BR><BR>[Sorry if this message disturbs some
of you]<BR><BR>At 14:17 26-09-2001, John Dicus wrote:<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite">(...) She said to walk the circle<BR>clockwise,
hearing from the four voices in the unending sequence of a<BR>learning
spiral. If we become stuck at any one point, she said, we
should<BR>back up a quarter turn before moving on. So, what does
teacher need to say<BR>before we can go forward from warrior... to vision to
healing to....? In<BR>this spiraling, the way of the turtle (wisdom)
grows it's voice as well.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite">If any of you have never seen Paula's works,
her teaching book "Who Speaks<BR>For Wolf" would be a good read right
now. In short, it's about a people<BR>who decided to move their
village to a more fertile area but forgot to hear<BR>the voice of wolf in
their council circle. When they moved, they moved<BR>smack dab into
wolf's territory. After being harassed by wolves for a few<BR>months,
they decided that either they had to kill all the wolves or move<BR>back.
They decided to move back since the other choice was unconscionable.<BR>So
-- who speaks for wolf?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I read this initial message about the
turtle and though it was very well <BR>observed, and I prepared myself to see
the answers. Who would speak <BR>for the ones that have no voice in the
"council circle"; the ones who's <BR>land one wants to occupy or to bomb (the
ones that were once the<BR>native Americans, later from Vietnam, later from
Serbia, and today are <BR>from Afghanistan, it seems (*)? Who would speak for
the wolf?<BR><BR>And also who would understand that when one is stuck in the
warrior <BR>position one needs to go back to the teacher position, and
investigate the <BR>world from a new point of view until one can go on again.
If not, one will <BR>be a soldier, not a warrior - much less one that cares
for the four ways,<BR>(and the center of the circle - the turtle
position...)<BR><BR>Then I become quite sad and disturbed when I have
discovered that <BR>the wolf's voice was understood not as the voice of the
*other*, the<BR>dispossessed of voice, but as "the wolf within us", a much
lesser <BR>dignifying wolf, indeed.<BR><BR>But that is not strange. The first
revenge/relief response planned by <BR>the US government has been delayed due
to criticisms from European<BR>partners, Islamic countries and "people that
spoke for the wolf". At this<BR>moment a war is already in place -- but it is
a war in the media, to <BR>convince the American people and other partners
that must be done <BR>what has already been decided. (But Pakistan will have
the debt <BR>cancelled and maybe Cashmere; Russians will have Chechnya and the
<BR>North of Afghanistan; and the weapon producers will sell a lot more
<BR>weapons. And USA will behave as always. More of the same...)<BR><BR>The
voices that once spoke for the (real) wolf have been stopped - and <BR>today
even the meaning of the "wolf" is changed. Someone referred
1984?<BR><BR>Precisely when a paradigm change and a new world view are, imo,
<BR>most needed, the wiser between us are progressively accepting the <BR>"war
propaganda". Precisely when the "good" questions would be <BR>- "Why are some
people so angry with us to do so terrible things?", <BR>- "what have we been
doing wrong all this time?", <BR>- "have we shown any respect for other
peoples?", <BR>- "can we be respected by other countries when we accept the
death <BR> penalty within our borders?" (can a Christian accept
that, or must <BR> one consider that this is the type of question where
a Christian must <BR> show that he can also be a WARRIOR?)" <BR>- or,
even, "why do we consider natural that the others must speak our <BR>
language and we don't even try to speak theirs?" (Do you remember <BR>
that even in a so open environment as our own, the open space site <BR>
at <A href="http://www.openspaceworl.org/"
eudora="autourl">www.openspaceworl.org</A> was "English only" only one year
ago... <BR> (The world speaks English...)<BR><BR>I am sorry for asking
those questions in a so painfull moment. But those <BR>are truly the questions
that even most of the American supporters in Europe <BR>ask themselves every
day, not to speak about the countries that have <BR>been bombed by the
USA. And those are also, imho, the questions <BR>America MUST think
about in this moment. And if America as a whole<BR>will not think about it,
those are the questions that I must ask clearly to <BR>my American friends.
Please, think about them, now!<BR><BR>And, as one could expect, the voices
that speak for the wolf will be <BR>less and less heard, then less and less
accepted, and, later, more and <BR>more criticized, until they will be
silenced or persecuted. In a time of <BR>war the ones that don't agree with us
are probably on the side of our <BR>enemies, are enemies themselves -- they
must be controlled, arrested, <BR>or even killed. <BR><BR>The war closes the
space. War always closes the space. War is <BR>the contrary of Open
Space.<BR><BR>"Whoever comes and agrees with us is the right people"
will<BR>become the new version of the "principle" in all the countries
involved...<BR><BR>The problem with this war is that it will encompasses all
the world, <BR>and all the forums, including this one. I inicially agreed with
those <BR>that alerted us that, from now on, discussing war can be dangerous
<BR>for the OS community. And I was almost decided to consider the
thread<BR>over for me and apply the law of two feet in relation with
terrorism, <BR>war and warriors. <BR><BR>[It was a pity because I am preparing
a text with my own experience <BR>with terrorism - the experience of the
Portuguese colonialism, of <BR>the terrorism it implied against the African
peoples of the colonies<BR>and within Portugal itself; and how this have
conducted to African <BR>terrorism (beginning with UPA in Angola - by the way
supported by <BR>the Americans) and later to the Portuguese democratic
revolution <BR>and the independence of the ex-colonies. And how the Occident
had <BR>already managed to introduce terrorism within those countries that
<BR>are today devastated by competing armies - all armed by occidental
<BR>countries. ] <BR><BR>But then I saw Toni Petrinovich's message that
ended with:<BR><BR><FONT color=#800080 size=4><I>With peace in my heart, love
for mankind and a prayer that we do not easily walk away from this discussion
when it is exactly what those who wish to fight us are hoping
for<BR><BR></I></FONT>and that can be also true. <BR><BR>Since the attack we
are all living terrible moments - and terrible moments <BR>can be an inhibitor
for learning and changing. But they can also be a good <BR>moment for
"emerging crativity" and change of paradigms, that are sometimes <BR>(or
always?) painful... <BR><BR>Please believe I am really sorry for all the
victims of the attacks and their <BR>families and relatives. And also sorry
for the fact that such dificult questions <BR>have to be answered by each of
you, at least in your heart, at this so dificcult <BR>moment. And believe that
what I wrote comes only from the great consideration <BR>I have for this
community - it comes only from passion and responsability.<BR><BR>Warm
regards<BR><BR>Artur<BR><BR>(*) In the NATO's meeting of Defense Ministers,
yesterday, the representative<BR>of USA produced no proof of the involvement
of Bin Laden or Al-Quaed<BR>in the terrorist attacks. When questioned about
that by the media he answered:<BR>"I can show you again the film (of the two
crashes); do you need any other<BR>proof?" Do
we?<BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>