To J. Paul Everett

Andrea Penrose denny at dcsi.net.au
Wed Sep 19 01:47:33 PDT 2001


Thank-you for your reply regarding the time-zone differences. We are just
out of winter and into Spring, so not on Daylight Savings yet...October for
that.
Cheers, best wishes, Andrea (Melbourne)
----- Original Message -----
From: J. Paul Everett <JPESeeker at aol.com>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 3:55 AM
Subject: Andrea of Melbourne, re: Time


> Andrea,
>
> Noon (1200 hours) Greenwich Mean Time (London) is 7:00 AM (0700 hours),
New
> York Time (Eastern Time) which is also 10:00 PM (2200 hours), Melbourne
time,
> and 4:00 AM (0400 hours) Seattle time where I am.  However, there is the
> question of daylight savings time.  We are on that in the United States
and I
> don't know about Melbourne, but you will.  If you are on daylight time,
then
> the above holds; if you are not, but on standard time, then you will need
to
> begin the opening of space at 9:00PM your time.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Paul Everett
>
> *
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>From  Wed Sep 19 10:03:03 2001
Message-Id: <WED.19.SEP.2001.100303.0100.>
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:03:03 +0100
Reply-To: simon.nash at talk21.com
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: Simon Nash <simon.nash at talk21.com>
Subject: Re: Apologiy/ How to use resources; How is Bin Laden just
 likethe rest of us?
In-Reply-To: <3BA846B9.84A25BE3 at interchange.ubc.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thank you Julie and Chris.

I have greatly enjoyed and benefited from the fact that you have shared this
conversation in this open space. Three things have particularly been useful
for me.

Firstly the warmth and care with which you conversed - I'm trying to get my
head around something a very inspirational teacher said to me last week
about love being a mix of acceptance and challenge (or was it acceptance and
allowing) - your words to each other (as have many other threads on this
listserv) have had a deep impact for me at a level other than the content.

Content-wise: Julie's first question "How is Bin Laden just like the rest of
us?" has provoked a rich theme for meditation for me - especially seeing his
face across the front page of the UK's Times Newspaper (it was an Associated
Press photo by Zia Mazhar so I guess its getting global coverage). I don't'
know what others saw in the photo - and the question, but I saw a man, not
much older than me I suppose, looking with a mixture of apprehension and
passion. His skin tone, eye colour, facial hair, head dress, are all
(probably) just the same as the Galilean peasant in whose name Bush
pronounced his twenty-first century crusade. (what is the difference between
a crusade and a jihad anyway - perhaps there is one?).

I also have a picture of George W. from one of last weeks newspapers - I
need to remember he is a frightened and passionate man too.

Its so easy to be less than loving and therefore less than human in my
relationship to these two human beings but how can I expect them to be human
to each other if I cannot love them both.

Julie; your question opened up some significant ways to growth in this area.

Lastly for now, Chris's observation that "Nelson Mandela and Louis Riel and
Rigoberta Menchu and Ang San Suu Kyi" are just like the rest of us was a
useful reminder that just as demonising Bin Laden or Bush has a dehumanising
effect on us, so also the elevation of these good people and others to a
level beyond our own human reach also has a dehumanising effect. If we
believe ourselves incapable of their acts and lives of mercy, love,
forgiveness, courage, bravery, challenge, justice etc. then we make it so
for ourselves.

Anyway - thanks for inspiring me to make a first posting to your list - I
hope I have been congruent with the local conventions and that you'll
patiently correct me as a novice to this community.

Peace,
Simon


-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]On Behalf Of Chris
Corrigan
Sent: 19 September 2001 08:18
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: Apologiy/ How to use resources; How is Bin Laden just
likethe rest of us?


Julie:

No need to apologize...I think I was trying to support your point.  Funny
that it didn't come across that way.

All I'm saying is that most of us in the world, if we have nothing else at
least have this: functioning bodies, nimble minds, bright spirits and 24
hours in a day.  That was all folks like Nelson Mandela and Louis Riel and
Rigoberta Menchu and Ang San Suu Kyi had to their names.  And look what they
did.

I'm a big believer in just doing what you can.  Feeding one person takes
less than an hour.  You prepare a meal and you give it away.  Done.  No
government is going to make life that simple :-)

One time, I was doing a community consultation in Prince Rupert, on the
northwest caost of Canada.  We were fed by an Elders group, who insisted
that we eat first.  Where I come from, in Ojibway country in Ontario, it is
customary for the young men to feed the Elders first, so I was a little
uncomfortable.  But in Rupert, the Elders would not eat until we had our
food.  One Nisga'a woman explained to me that the young men must eat first
so they can be strong enough to look after the older ones.

In other words, you can only be useful if you are strong.  To me that was a
great lesson about burning out, and about doing as much as you can while
still staying healthy, lithe and spirited.

So, apology not accepted....it wasn't necessary.

:-)

Peace back to you,

Chris

Julie Hotard wrote:

> Hi, Chris
>
> I am so sorry if my previous communication
> sounded like I was saying that poorer people
> have nothing to offer.  I certaninly don't believe
> that.  Some of the poorest and most disabled
> folks I have personally worked with are
> an inspiration to me.
>
> The choices that you mention about how to use
> resources are personally a struggle for me--
> choices about how to spend my energy,  money,
> time, and spirit.  I did some very meaningful work
> that seemed quite useful and helpful to people in great
> need for around 15 years.  But then I felt very burnt out.
> It was a great relief to take a break and do more superficial
> and less meaningful seeming work.
>
> With my money I am aware that my government
> here in the U.S. takes tons of it yearly in income
> taxes-- enough to feed tons of people during the
> next year-- but then uses that money mostly to do
> other things, most of which I personally do not want
> done.
>
> With my after-tax income I also have difficult
> decisions.  I have contributed hundreds of dollars
> to the Red Cross recently.  Was it enough?  Was it
> too much?  Should some of that have gone to my
> niece's college tuition fund?  How responsible
> should I feel financially, political activism-wise
> etc. for multiple sufferings going on in multiple
> areas of the globe?  It could easily get
> overwhelming, even to try to keep track of it all,
> much less contribute.  Should priority go to
> the folks whose lives my own government,
> against my will, has made worse?
>
> I hope I have not created ill feelings between us.
> If I have, I am sincerely sorry about that.  This is
> a difficult time for many of us in North America
> and in the world all over, and emotions are running
> intensely.  I do not want to send even a tiny drop of
> pain toward anyone, least of toward someone making
> such a major contribution to the world by working with
> the populations you work with.
>
> Peace,
>
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Corrigan" <corcom at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA>
> To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 10:33 AM
> Subject: Re: How is Bin Laden just like the rest of us?
>
> > I work with some of the poorest people in Canada.  People suffering
> > mental illness, AIDS, physical disabilities, racism, hunger and
> > illiteracy.  Some of them give more of themselves to their communities
> > than is even conceivable by "richer" people.
> >
> > We all have different amounts of money, but we are all equally rich in
> > spirit.  People make choices about how to spend both.
> >
> > Peace,
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > --
> > CHRIS CORRIGAN
> > Consultation - Facilitation
> > Open Space Technology
> >
> > http://www.chriscorrigan.com
> > corcom at interchange.ubc.ca
> >
> > RR 1 E-3
> > 1172 Miller Road
> > Bowen Island, BC
> > Canada, V0N 1G0
> >
> > phone (604) 947-9236
> > fax (604) 947-9238
> >
> > *
> > *
> > ==========================================================
> > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > ------------------------------
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> > view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu,
> > Visit:
> >
> > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> *
> *
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--
CHRIS CORRIGAN
Consultation - Facilitation
Open Space Technology

http://www.chriscorrigan.com
corcom at interchange.ubc.ca

RR 1 E-3
1172 Miller Road
Bowen Island, BC
Canada, V0N 1G0

phone (604) 947-9236
fax (604) 947-9238

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>From  Wed Sep 19 10:08:21 2001
Message-Id: <WED.19.SEP.2001.100821.0100.>
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:08:21 +0100
Reply-To: simon.nash at talk21.com
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: Simon Nash <simon.nash at talk21.com>
Subject: Re: To J. Paul Everett
In-Reply-To: <002101c140e7$baaff000$6df138cb at n019837>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

UK is still on daylight saving too (British Summer Time = GMT+1)  - so I
make it 1100 am for any UK'ers who wish to share this Space.


-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]On Behalf Of Andrea
Penrose
Sent: 19 September 2001 09:48
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: To J. Paul Everett


Thank-you for your reply regarding the time-zone differences. We are just
out of winter and into Spring, so not on Daylight Savings yet...October for
that.
Cheers, best wishes, Andrea (Melbourne)
----- Original Message -----
From: J. Paul Everett <JPESeeker at aol.com>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 3:55 AM
Subject: Andrea of Melbourne, re: Time


> Andrea,
>
> Noon (1200 hours) Greenwich Mean Time (London) is 7:00 AM (0700 hours),
New
> York Time (Eastern Time) which is also 10:00 PM (2200 hours), Melbourne
time,
> and 4:00 AM (0400 hours) Seattle time where I am.  However, there is the
> question of daylight savings time.  We are on that in the United States
and I
> don't know about Melbourne, but you will.  If you are on daylight time,
then
> the above holds; if you are not, but on standard time, then you will need
to
> begin the opening of space at 9:00PM your time.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Paul Everett
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu,
> Visit:
>
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>

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>From  Wed Sep 19 12:27:29 2001
Message-Id: <WED.19.SEP.2001.122729.0200.>
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 12:27:29 +0200
Reply-To: florianfischer at ff-wey.com
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: florian fischer <florianfischer at ff-wey.com>
Subject: Re: Learning: faith
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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--------------D73B0811BE66ADEFF6E31E0F
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Heidi and Dan Chay schrieb:

> Hi Julie, I laugh with love for you. You wrote:
> >>"Faith is not an opinion but a state."Paul Tillich, The Courage To
> Be<<

dear dan,
let me think about faith.

faith is a noun
faith is not a verb

faith is the now
without past, without future

faith is real
without any lingual mood

faith is
faith is not to do

faith don´t has a direction
neither coming from
nor going to
neither given from
nor related to
faith don´t has an intention

faith is vertical position
for standing and understanding

i am within faith
faith is within me

perhaps
faith is like the shore of a lake
or the coast of an island

florian


florian fischer
begleitung im wandel
münchener 6
10779 berlin
fon 0049.30. 2116752
fax 0049.30. 2115943
florianfischer at ff-wey.com







--------------D73B0811BE66ADEFF6E31E0F
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
 
<p>Heidi and Dan Chay schrieb:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
Hi Julie, I laugh with love for you.
You wrote:
<br>>><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>"Faith is not an opinion but a state."Paul
Tillich, The Courage To Be<<</font></font></blockquote>
dear dan,
<br>let me think about faith.
<p>faith is a noun
<br>faith is not a verb
<p>faith is the now
<br>without past, without future
<p>faith is real
<br>without any lingual mood
<p>faith is
<br>faith is not to do
<p>faith don´t has a direction
<br>neither coming from
<br>nor going to
<br>neither given from
<br>nor related to
<br>faith don´t has an intention
<p>faith is vertical position
<br>for standing and understanding
<p>i am within faith
<br>faith is within me
<p>perhaps
<br>faith is like the shore of a lake
<br>or the coast of an island
<p>florian
<br> 
<p>florian fischer
<br>begleitung im wandel
<br>münchener 6
<br>10779 berlin
<br>fon 0049.30. 2116752
<br>fax 0049.30. 2115943
<br>florianfischer at ff-wey.com
<br> 
<br> 
<br> 
<br> 
<br> 
<br> 
</body>
</html>

--------------D73B0811BE66ADEFF6E31E0F--

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