Reflections on Truth, Systems and Reality.

Fri Aug 31 10:36:56 PDT 2001

Some people believe we have but two choices for defining reality.  One
choice is to be awake, and the other is to be asleep.

The sleeping state is the state most of us occupy most of the time.  It is
sometimes called the world of illusion.  I believe Buddhists call this maya
(or is it samsara?).  It is from within this state that the Sioux legend
resonates with me.  When we are in our sleeping/dream/illusion state, we
create our own reality, and the knowledge that we are doing so resides
within each of us.  Other ideas also resonate from this state: the idea of
relative or contextual truth, of shifting realities, of the relevance of
past and future.  From within this state, there is no identifiable absolute
Truth.

The awakened state, as I understand it, cannot be described with words.  It
can only be experienced.  Yet words can help point the way.  My
understanding is that the awakened state is a state of absolutes and
eternals.  Something on the order of Truth = Love = God = You = Me = All =
One.  That doesn't exactly express my understanding, as the equal signs do
not adequately express the relationship between God (Creator) and Us
(Created), but it's close.  From this state, which is our only real and
natural state, truth = reality = love.  Time is an irrelevant concept
because the present, the eternal Now, is the only "time" there is.

I think in some ways our discussion has been confusing because our language
and thoughts weave between these two states.  Whenever someone talks about
focusing on being "present," or on spirit or connection or oneness, I feel
them searching for the awakened state.  From this state of mind, we're
looking for absolutes, for a way of being in the world we can always count
on to elicit the best from ourselves and others.  At the same time, we're
all facing the daily "reality" of our dream-state, so we weave in ideas
about contextual truths, shifting realities, and the like.

For those of us who believe all of that (or something similar) is true, the
only pragmatic activity we can undertake is to seek the awakened state.
That causes all kinds of personal tensions because what is pragmatic to a
person seeking an awakened state looks like the height of folly to a
"pragmatic" person operating from the rules and expectations of the illusory
world.  There are many very powerful pressures that tempt us to conform to
the shifting belief systems of the illusory world.  We therefore naturally
tend toward processes and people who are open and who give us space to
explore the possibility of a different meaning for life.  I assume people
are drawn to OS because of it's inherent openness, respect, trust and
(borrowing from Carl Rogers) unconditional positive regard.  Those are all
attributes, I believe, of the awakened state.

Julie

----- Original Message -----
From: william becker <fbbecker at earthlink.net>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: Reflections on Truth, Systems and Reality.

> It's great to hear from a pragmatist.   I think your insights lean heavily
> towards earlier conversations around implementation of results.
>
> it seems to bee looking for meaning/Truth from the OST process is akin to
> looking for the meaning of Life, when Life itself is the meaning.
>
> As I understand OST, there can be no explicit expectations.  It's
construct
> is built on the premis that what is, IS (not to sound like one of our
> citizens)- whoever shows up and whatever happens is what is supposed to
> happen.
>
> How can we prepare a context for expectations from such an event?  I know
> this sounds fatalistic, but isn't the process built on the same concept?
>
> It is interesting that, including me, how we discover a process that is
> different that past practices we have used, and overtime we try to deify
it.
> Our yearning to be linked to the Power Spirit may drive this.
>
> Yet when the Spirit "created" us, s/he may have accepted the fact that
> whatever results is what it is supposed to be.  Sure, there are the two
> extremes of good and bad, yet maybe that friction, as is the molten heat
> within earth, the thing that holds the Spirit's creation together.
>
> I keep saying it, but will again, this dialogue is very stimulating and
> gives me pause in my work and personal life.
>
> Thanks to everyone.
>
> Bill Becker
> Strategic Business Resources
> www.stratbussres.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J. Paul Everett" <JPESeeker at aol.com>
> To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 11:50 PM
> Subject: Reflections on Truth, Systems and Reality.
>
>
> > Discussion on Truth, OSE’s, Godel, Reality Models
> >
> > What is “Truth” depends largely on one’s model of reality, I think.  One
’s
> > model of reality is generally built on the cultural frame one is raised
in
> as
> > well as one’s personal experiences of what works and what doesn’t work,
or
> > work well enough.  If this is ‘true’, then ‘truth’ is contextual, both
as
> > to time and geography (space).  (One need only remember Galileo having
to
> > recant his hypothesis that the earth revolved around the sun in order to
> save
> > his life to see how powerful organizational ‘truth’ can be in its
‘current
> > reality’.)
> >
> > Further, I think that reality dictates to me, I do not dictate to
reality.
> > Our task, therefore, is to discover what works, in reality (more on this
> in a
> > moment).
> >
> > Godel’s Theorem states that “For any system of integer arithmetic, a
> > proposition can be put that can be neither proved or disproved within
the
> > system.”  Godel’s Theorem is based on paradox, which is a statement that
> > makes a statement about itself.  It is itself, it’s own ‘box’.  By
> Godelian
> > reasoning, therefore, every model of reality is necessarily inconsistent
> or
> > incomplete or both.  (I am indebted to an article by Prof. Robert Hall
in
> the
> > second quarter 2001 Target magazine of the Association for Manufacturing
> > Excellence for provoking and aiding the discussion in this and part of
the
> > following paragraph.)
> >
> > And, since there is no way a human can comprehend the whole universe, we
> all
> > live in a box bounded by our observation, learning and
experience---which
> may
> > become our truth.  The danger is, of course, if it becomes “The Truth”.
> >
> > My perception of Open Space Technology, itself a model of reality, is
that
> it
> > is a system/process for helping people express themselves in a
> > self-organizing way and ‘think outside the box’---the box often being
> > corporate or organizational rules, regulations, culture, ‘the way we do
> > things around here’---and every organized system has these, even OST.
> Godel
> > says we can’t self-reference OST in evaluating OST as a system.  We have
> to
> > begin to think from the outside in----a difficult prospect if we get
> caught
> > up in truth.
> >
> > Further, according to discussions held here, there have been Open Space
> > Events (OSE’s) that were, in military parlance, “limited successes”.
> Maybe
> > even failures.  In essence, they didn’t work well enough to meet the
needs
> of
> > the situation---the reality in which they occurred.  This makes one very
> > tentative in proclaiming a truth about any given system, even OST.
> >
> > However, there are some questions we might choose to ask ourselves that
> may
> > enhance the chances of a “successful” event.  I say "may", because chaos
> is
> > also part of our reality and we never can be sure we have it in a box.
We
> > have already had several valuable contributions from people’s
experiences
> > that speak to elements of these questions.
> >
> > 1.  What are the minimum necessary preconditions and context needed to
> enable
> > an OSE to “work”?
> >
> > 2.  What might we define as an OSE that “works”?  (Is people going away
> > feeling good about the event enough?  Or, is a successful OSE one that
has
> > needed outcomes as defined by the client system?)
> >
> > 3.  Is a successful OSE, like truth, contextual?
> >
> > 4.  Should a successful OSE, at a minimum, create meaning?  That is,
make
> a
> > difference in its own context?  Should these differences be observable,
> > concrete, that on which action can be taken?  Or, is an inner change
> > sufficient?  Is there a holy grail of an OSE?
> >
> > Interesting thread of discussion, thank you to all those who are
> contributing
> > from their own reality which has their truths embedded in it. :)
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > J. Paul Everett, Consultant
> > World Class Performance
> > JPESeeker at aol.com
> >
> > *
> > *
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>From  Fri Aug 31 14:33:46 2001
Message-Id: <FRI.31.AUG.2001.143346.0400.>
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:33:46 -0400
Reply-To: lpasoc at inforamp.net
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: Larry Peterson <lpasoc at inforamp.net>
Subject: Re: Reflections on Truth, Systems and Reality.
In-Reply-To: <003b01c13234$26dd2580$c275173f at oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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I think the way we prepare for the reality that like this, is by naming our
intentions and our perception of the context.  Then we try to find ways to
understand our experiences, especially the transforming ones.  Words are a
partial and way of understanding, always the map, never the territory.  But,
I need them in many situations and don't need them in others but just used
words to describe the others where words are never enough.

It is similar with clients preparing for Open Space and finding ways to
decide, anticipate and then learn and harvest.

Julie said it better but I already had this written.

Larry

Larry Peterson
Associates in Transformation
41 Appleton Ave.
Toronto, ON, Canada, M6E 3A4
Phone:  416.653.4829
Fax: 416.653.0609

larry at spiritedorg.com

www.spiritedorg.com
www.openspaceworld.com

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>From  Fri Aug 31 13:38:47 2001
Message-Id: <FRI.31.AUG.2001.133847.0500.>
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:38:47 -0500
Reply-To: mherman at globalchicago.net
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: Michael Herman <mherman at globalchicago.net>
Organization: Michael Herman Associates
Subject: Re: Reflections on Truth, Systems and Reality.
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been good to start reading all of you all again, here on the list, since osonos, after
a sort of a mostly-subject-line-only hiatus for me this year.  so much moving in life!
anyway, saw this bit of your message, bill, and it reminded me that i'd convened a
session on 'letting go of ost' in vancouver.  so i mention it here with an invitation
to check out the proceedings at bigmind.
http://catalyst.bigmindmedia.com/osonoslogin.html

thanks, m

william becker wrote:

>
> It is interesting that, including me, how we discover a process that is
> different that past practices we have used, and overtime we try to deify it.
> Our yearning to be linked to the Power Spirit may drive this.
>

--

Michael Herman
300 West North Avenue #1105
Chicago IL 60610
312-280-7838 voice
312-280-7837 fax

http://www.michaelherman.com
a personal/professional portal to
consulting, open space, evolution,
invitation resources, michael's
open notebook, and the rest of
GlobalChicago...

mailto:mherman at globalchicago.net

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