AW: Central Asia

Julie Smith jsmith at mosquitonet.com
Tue Aug 28 16:55:34 PDT 2001


The conversation today reminds me of some things Richard Moss talks about.
This is from his book Words That Shine Both Ways:

What Unconditional Love
looks like to me
for our age
and our time
is not finding
a belief or process
that will make you happy,
but having the strength
and courage to stay present
for whatever you experience
not as a victim
not righteous in it,
not as an evangelist
for some idea, some technique, some faith,
but just to stay present.

Julie


----- Original Message -----
From: Doersam, Laurel <Laurel.Doersam at caphealth.org>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: AW: Central Asia


> Hmmmm.  Interesting.  By using the term personal, I wasn't meaning to
infer
> that the experience couldn't be in a group.  It actually didn't occur to
me
> that some folks might think that all valid spiritual experience would be
> solo.  Many of my most profound spiritual experiences have been in
> community, for this is when I've most clearly felt my connection to the
> oneness.
>
> It struck me as ironic there might be a distrust of group in spiritual
> circles (for doesn't a circle infer group-ness?).
>  Our experiences on this planet are entirely human . . . we have no other
> filter by which to interpret our reality. . . and we are such social
beings
> . . . I agree that missing this connection, this experience of group-ness,
> this synergy, would be a terrible loss.  (And yet, I also don't want to
> diminish the value of alone-ness for both personal, spiritual and
> relationship growth.)
>
> Thanks, Kenoli, for inspiring more thought for me.
>
> And, thanks, Meg, for tying it back to Wilbur's four quadrants - that made
> sense to me.  Hmmm, the shadow side - that opens up another can o' worms.
> Presuming that groups/communities also have shadow sides (which I've
> certainly experienced, so I think they do), then maybe it is the lurking
> shadow that causes distrust of the group experience?
>
> Laurel.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kenoli Oleari [mailto:kenoli at IGC.ORG]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 12:49 PM
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Subject: Re: AW: Central Asia
>
>
> Laurel --
>
> This interests me.  I think there are two important elements here: 1)
> being connected with our own experience -- which is how I think we
> tune into the oneness that we are all part of -- and 2) recognizing
> (or realizing) our connection with each other and celebrating that --
> a kind of human realization of that oneness.  I think we have to do
> our own work to accomplish the first and to fully enter into the
> second.  I also think that certain qualities of group experience can
> enhance personal and spiritual growth.  There is not a linear
> relationship here.
>
> I have always been concerned with what I see as an unnecessary and
> frustrating division between people with a basically "spiritual"
> orientation and people with a community or "group" orientation.
> Wilbur has talked a lot about the distinctions that arise out of a
> Spiral Dynamic interpretation of various states of development.  I am
> concerned sometimes that some of his work, especially focus on the
> "mean green" furthers this distinction.  Group connections and
> process have been a critical part of my personal and spiritual
> development, along with my person work.  I sense a distrust of
> "group" in many spiritual circles. If feels like an important element
> of human experience is lost when this is missed.
>
> I think "group" can be a spiritual experience.
>
> Kenoli
>
> >Julie wrote:
> >
> >"I think we experience truth when we recognize our connection with each
> >other, and become glad.  Perhaps healing is what happens in the wake of
> >recognizing the truth of our connection with each other.  Maybe that is
the
> >only truth that matters."
> >
> >
> >Thanks, Julie, for jumping in.  Your comment grabbed me by the heart and
> >guts  - and, if it is "true", then in fact, there is only one truth which
> >encompasses the ALL in which we participate.  And that truth, that all is
> >one, can't be known or understood through the intellect, but only through
> >personal mystical or intuitive experience.  (Here I go with the Ken
> >Wilburisms ...) This seems to tie in with the Gaia consciousness
discussion
> >that has been a parallel thread over the last week or two - Harrison and
> >Typhoid Mary notwithstanding!!
> >
> >Great conversation!  Thanks, all (and thanks, ALL)
> >
> >Laurel.
> >
> >*
> >*
> >==========================================================
> >OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> >------------------------------
> >To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> >view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu,
> >Visit:
> >
> >http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> --
> Kenoli Oleari, Horizons of Change, http://www.horizonsofchange.com
> 1801 Fairview Street, Berkeley, CA  94703   Voice Phone: 510-601-8217,
> Fax: 510-595-8369, Email: kenoli at igc.org (or click on:
> mailto://kenoli@igc.org)
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu,
> Visit:
>
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu,
> Visit:
>
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>

*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu,
Visit:

http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html



More information about the OSList mailing list