Self-organising, et al

[Alan Stewart]

G'day all

Here is an item that you may find of value with regard to this
fascinating issue.

I sent a copy of Jay Vogt's response to Birgitt's query to my friend and
newly
appointed President of the American Cybernetics Society, Pille Bunnell.
She
has given permission to post it here, with the comment that ' I felt it
was
rather cryptic, but I dont want to take the time to make it properly
understandable at the moment... so if you think it will serve, be of
interest, please
do post!'

Incidentally Pille and I have had close connections with Humberto
Maturana, one
of the people mentioned by Richard Holloway in his posting on this
topic.

"Let me also comment that all so called self organizing systems (I
prefer
"spontaneously organizing", as this does not imply a "self" of any kind
doing the organizing) happen in a context which can be taken as a
constrain
or as a form; they do not, cannot exist in a vaccuum.  What Birgitt
refers
to as the bounds of open space, correspond it the domain that open space

happens, to the bounds of any system in the space that that system may
exist.  To be more specific, open space exists in the domain of human
social behaviour.  A living system exists in its niche.  Both are
bounded
in the sense that it is not EVERYTHING that is there, nor is ANYTHING
possible for them.  The freedom experienced is precisely the freedom of
flowing congruently within the constraints.  Just like a surfer is
"free",
but what the surfer can do is highly constrained by the waves.  The
nature
of the flow, the free flow that happens in each instance is what matters
to
us.
Cheers!  Pille"