More on Drop-off

ralphsc ralphsc at earthlink.net
Mon Dec 20 08:55:04 PST 1999


Hi,

As I ponder the e-mails on drop-off once again, I realize the following...

1.  I admit that when the whole gang that was there at the start is not there at the closing, I am disappointed and still sometimes think it is somehow my fault ­ even though I know it probably isn't.

2.  Part of me wants somehow to behave in such a way at the beginning  and all during the event so as to make sure everybody shows up at the closing ­ even though I am fully aware there is nothing I can do that will assure this outcome.

3.  I spend energy during the period of opened space telling myself that nothing is within my control.  I tell myself and I tell myself.

4.  I still think everything that happens is, after all, a personal reflection on me ­ even though I have truly learned this is not so.  Or have I?

By the way, have you noticed how all year around, this list is always civil, courteous, thoughtful, honest, helpful and wise?  Can you recall even a single instant of incivility, unnecessary sarcasm or curt behavior?  I cannot.  All year, every year.  Wow! As we get deep into the holidays, here's wishing you all a wonderful season and a simply marvelous 2000.  My wish is that everybody everywhere treat everyone just the way we treat each other here.

My love to you all.

Ralph Copleman

>From  Mon Dec 20 18:10:52 1999
Message-Id: <MON.20.DEC.1999.181052.0100.>
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:10:52 +0100
Reply-To: e.kolenaty at train.at
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: Erich Kolenaty <e.kolenaty at train.at>
Subject: AW: documentation of "short stories"
In-Reply-To: <00cd01bf47d1$5b3b1980$0300000a at Peggy>
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Peg,

the question you are bringing up is busying us at the moment. We try to do
some experimental work with "micro-spaces" at the moment, meetings were you
run one, may be two working sessions, maybe in a conitinuing process. By
doing "short stories" in my opinion it is not unsolusable to open the space
in brief, to bring up the themes and to make the people work. The main
question is who to arrange both: the connection off the people at the end
and the fusion of the outcomes.

What we tried so far:

1 Closing the meeting with a talkingstickround, no reports, no immediate
documentation. workshop-inviters use visualizations to make a report after.
The participants get the collection as soon as possible. This works, but is
not very satisfying. People don't get an instant feeling of the "whole
elephant" and after three weeks you sufffer a bad loss of energy.

2 In a break bitween workshops and closing round the invitors write
one-page-reports by hand. We copy immediately and give it out to the
participants at the end. This works, especially in not very specified
enviroments e.g. with voluntary participants, where you cannot use the
official communication base of an organization. It is not very satisfying,
because it is producing, like we say "Zettelwirtschaft" - piles of papers -
and leaves a lack of connection. Fully reports can follow if possible..

3 .We tried reports of three minutes each, which is working splendid in a
RTSC-setting, .but in an OS-seeting it is terrible boring. (ok ok, there has
not really been a need to try it by working on OS-rules). Anyway:
hypothesis: folks cannot integrate so many (even 10-20 ) different workouts
in a short time, when they are still hanging on there own. Written reports
like above. Summary: It is nice to hear, but you don't understand a lot.

4. What is working best with a limited number of people (let's say up to 10,
max. 15 working groups a round) is to generate a new social structure for
30 -45 minutes: The working groups are still sitting together in circles
like leaves of a flower and in the inner circle the facilitator is sitting
with the workshop invitors and talks about what they feel about the work in
the groups and what they think the main results have been. After this:
talking stick round or next working round. Theres is less focus on the
contents and more attention to the links bitween. For some reasons the
"inner space intervention" gathers more attention and satisfaction as any
other way handling with "micro-spaces".

I would like to share your experiences by doing short (and continuing)
meetings using  OS

best wishes to you all for christmas and the Y2K

from Vienna
Erich










--------------------------------
Erich Kolenaty
TRAIN Management Trainings- und
Organisationsberatungs-GesmbH

A- 1070 Wien, Zollerg. 7/6
Tel. +43-1/526 07 408, Fax: +43-1/526 07 409
mobil: +43-1/110 75 20
e-mail: e.kolenaty at train.at, www. train.at


  Also, there's a practical side to this question: what is the best way to
capture the documentation from the 3.5 hour community sessions?

  Any thoughts would be appreciated!

  Peg Holman




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<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999>Peg,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D785422216-16121999>the=20
question you are bringing up is busying us at the moment. We try to do =
some=20
experimental work with "micro-spaces" at the moment, meetings were you =
run one,=20
may be two working sessions, maybe in a conitinuing process. By doing =
"short=20
stories" in my opinion it is not unsolusable to open the space in brief, =
to=20
bring up the themes and to make the people work. The main question =
is who=20
to arrange both: the connection off the people at the end and the fusion =
of the=20
outcomes.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D785422216-16121999>What=20
we tried so far:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D785422216-16121999>1=20
Closing the meeting with a talkingstickround, no reports, no immediate=20
documentation. workshop-inviters use visualizations to make a report =
after. The=20
participants get the collection as soon as possible. This works, but is =
not very=20
satisfying. People don't get an instant feeling of the "whole elephant" =
and=20
after three weeks you sufffer a bad loss of energy.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999>2 In a break bitween workshops and =
closing round=20
the invitors write one-page-reports by hand. We copy immediately=20
and give it out to the participants at the end. This works, =
especially in=20
not very specified enviroments e.g. with voluntary participants, where =
you=20
cannot use the official communication base of an organization. It =
is not=20
very satisfying, because it is producing, like we say "Zettelwirtschaft" =
- piles=20
of papers - and leaves a lack of connection. Fully reports can =
follow=20
if possible..</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D785422216-16121999>3 .We=20
tried reports of three minutes each, which is working splendid in a=20
RTSC-setting, .but in an OS-seeting it is terrible boring. (ok ok, =
there=20
has not really been a need to try it by working on OS-rules). =
Anyway:=20
hypothesis: folks cannot integrate so many (even 10-20 ) different =
workouts in a=20
short time, when they are still hanging on there own. Written =
reports like=20
above. Summary: It is nice to hear, but you don't understand a=20
lot.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D785422216-16121999>4.=20
What is working best with a limited number of people (let's say up to =
10, max.=20
15 working groups a round) is to generate a new social structure for 30 =
-45=20
minutes: The working groups are still sitting together in circles like =
leaves of=20
a flower and in the inner circle the facilitator is sitting with the =
workshop=20
invitors and talks about what they feel about the work in the =
groups and=20
what they think the main results have been. After this: talking stick =
round or=20
next working round. Theres is less focus on the contents and more =
attention to=20
the links bitween. For some reasons the "inner space intervention" =
gathers more=20
attention and satisfaction as any other way handling with =
"micro-spaces". =20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D785422216-16121999>I=20
would like to share your experiences by doing short (and =
continuing)=20
meetings using  OS</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D785422216-16121999>best=20
wishes to you all for christmas and the Y2K</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D785422216-16121999>from=20
Vienna</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999>Erich</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D785422216-16121999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D785422216-16121999> =20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>--------------------------------</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>Erich Kolenaty</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DTahoma =
size=3D2>TRAIN=20
Management Trainings- und</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>Organisationsberatungs-GesmbH</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>A- 1070 Wien, Zollerg. 7/6</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>Tel. +43-1/526 07 408, Fax: +43-1/526 07 =
409</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>mobil: +43-1/110 75 20</FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>e-mail: e.kolenaty at train.at, www. train.at </FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV>Also, there's a practical side to this question: what is the best =
way to=20
  capture the documentation from the 3.5 hour community sessions?</DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV>Any thoughts would be appreciated!</DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV>Peg Holman</DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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>From  Tue Dec 21 16:03:09 1999
Message-Id: <TUE.21.DEC.1999.160309.0700.>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:03:09 -0700
Reply-To: bjpeters at amug.org
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: BJ Peters <bjpeters at amug.org>
Subject: Re: Drop Off in Numbers
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Peg Holman wrote:

> I think intention has a great deal to do with this.  When asking is
> tinged
> with accusation or expectation of an accounting, then it is quite
> inappropriate.  When it is done from a place of loving curiosity, I
> have
> found it can open new territory to explore both for the asker and the
> asked.
> Such questions for me have led to deeper, richer understanding and
> closer
> relationships.
>
> Peg Holman

I agree with you, Peg. My response was in the context of the discussion.
What I was reading in the context was that somehow, people leaving was
cause for concern, was perhaps less than what was expected. Asking "from
a place of loving curiosity" may provide some insight into your
"capacity" comments from another email.

Thanks --BJ
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