<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>Dear Nick,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I wanted to wait and listen to others voices before writing more. So here I am back again :)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Reading your response, "I'm always excited and willing to receive feedback.“ I smile and appreciate your willingness!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Wow, it was even a year that you wrote to the list. When I remember back, my memory says there were more people participating in the email conversation, giving you feedback in that form instead of via the document. My assumption (which could be totally off, of course) is that several of them weren’t inspired to contribute to your document as one could argue the overall tone and approach was quite far from what you call „the traditional OST“.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Looking at your doc today, I am also not energised to contribute more. While I am not a programmer, I believe to know that at times it’s better to replace mixed up code completely, instead of trying to keep mending it. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So… picking up on Harold Shinsato’s message:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Why not go to the original description of OST as referenced there (or to another source by Harrison Owen) to describe „traditional OST“. </div><div class="">Why create a new description with so many variations as yours has?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">(On a side note, I have become really curious where that description originates from = Is this how you do OST? Have you learned doing it that way somewhere? Did you read about doing it this way? How did it come about?)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Last not least: In the comments below your post I see Harrison Owen’s. Quote: </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><i class="">(…) </i><i class="">You can call this some other thing. Unconference, barcamp, etc. are
variants where the organisers or “facilitators’ feel a need to impose a
little more structure and a little of their ego into the event. Of
course it’s mostly unintentional, but it’s still what’s happening.</i></div><p class=""><i class="">Open Space Technology, it is not.</i></p><p class=""><i class="">Please permit your ego to give it a different name, to avoid misinforming others.</i></p><div class="">Receiving such a comment from the originator discoverer of anything would make me really think deeply. And honouring their authority, I would then choose a new name while referencing their approach as an inspiration, but claim ownership of my add-ons.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Having written all that, I am also remembering that so much stays unexpressed and unexplored in an email space. I do have an honest, real, deep desire to understand your choice of doing this balancing edge/split of creating something different (the twist) while naming it as if it was close to the original. If you are open to that, I’d love to have a live virtual conversation with you instead of email.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I always wonder… where is the deeper truth? The meeting point? Beyond any thoughts of being right or wrong?</div><div class="">Marai</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><p class=""><b class=""><i class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing</i></b></p><p class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,</p><p class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>there is a field. I’ll meet you there.</p><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>When the soul lies down in that grass,</p><p class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>the world is too full to talk about.</p><p class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Ideas, language, even the phrase “each other” doesn’t make any sense.</p><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>mevlana jelaluddin rumi – 13th century poet and spiritual teacher</p></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Am 05.06.2019 um 08:33 schrieb Nick Martin <<a href="mailto:nick@workshopbank.com" class="">nick@workshopbank.com</a>>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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Thanks for your open letter Marai. I'm always excited and willing to
receive feedback.<br class="">
<br class="">
As you'll remember over a year ago I opened up the content of this
article for comments and input from this list in the form of a
Google Doc. <br class="">
<br class="">
Such was the passion exhibited in the original thread I was eager
and excited to receive your inputs. Unfortunately only two people
replied though. I'm very grateful to both you and Keith Blundell for
taking the time.<br class="">
<br class="">
I must admit life took over and in my wait for more input other
priorities took over. I'm happy to revisit it now though as I can
feel the energy is back and I'd like to the right thing in the eyes
of this excellent community.<br class="">
<br class="">
Here's the link -
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ufIsy0BQvIqlRUbW0FAyXHGV0IKw3VdDT8L91RIJJU8/edit?usp=sharing">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ufIsy0BQvIqlRUbW0FAyXHGV0IKw3VdDT8L91RIJJU8/edit?usp=sharing</a><br class="">
<br class="">
Please add your thoughts, comments and feedback and amend the
article as best I can.<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05/06/2019 01:53, Marai Kiele wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:DF1C8B11-F7F8-462D-944B-B445AA96EF4C@joyful-together.com" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
Hello Nick Martin,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I find myself tense in my belly after reading your
newsletter today:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(10, 10, 10); color:
rgb(10, 10, 10); font-family: "Source Sans Pro",
Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 18px;
background-color: rgb(254, 254, 254);" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I
just wanted to share with you </span><a data-utm-override="true" href="https://t.dripemail2.com/c/eyJhY2NvdW50X2lkIjoiMjM3MTU2MiIsImRlbGl2ZXJ5X2lkIjoiNjc1OTQzNzE4MiIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd29ya3Nob3BiYW5rLmNvbS9vcGVuLXNwYWNlLXRlY2hub2xvZ3k_dXRtX3NvdXJjZT1kcmlwXHUwMDI2dXRtX21lZGl1bT1lbWFpbFx1MDAyNnV0bV9jYW1wYWlnbj1uZXctdG9vbC1vcGVuLXNwYWNlXHUwMDI2X19zPXFtZXdvcGZiZnpzMnBvY3ltZTRnIn0" style="font-family: "Source Sans Pro", Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 18px;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">a popular WorkshopBank tool</a><span style="caret-color: rgb(10, 10, 10); color: rgb(10, 10, 10);
font-family: "Source Sans Pro", Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif; font-size: 18px; background-color: rgb(254, 254,
254);" class=""> you can start using with your clients right
away. Let me know what you think.</span></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">You suggest that the reader lets you know what they
think. I choose to do that.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I also choose to do that in the form of an open
letter, as several months back you asked on the os-list for
input to your description of the OST process for the
Workshopbank.</div>
<div class="">You introduced your version of „OST with a twist“,
and there was a somewhat heated discussion on this list about
it.</div>
<div class="">I participated in both, revising and giving you
feedback on your description (as requested) and discussing about
„is something with such a twist still OST?“</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Your
twist was about giving the leaders control about the topics. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Back then I used the analogy that you are mixing red
wine with coca cola (which some people actually do and drink — I
tried it out as a teenager).</div>
<div class="">And that calling such a beverage „red wine with a
twist“ is an inaccurate representation of a) red wine and b) the
taste that a consumer will experience.</div>
<div class="">(side note: usually, this mix is done with red wine
of poor quality)</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span></div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>In
my analogy, OST is the red wine and controlling the process is
the coke.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">In your description, you early on distinguish
between OST and OST with a twist. I first appreciated you for
making that distinction so upfront. </div>
<div class="">Then I read what you wrote under:</div>
<div class="">
<div class="tve_empty_dropzone thrv_text_element thrv_wrapper"><p class=""><b class="">If you’re following the traditional
Open Space Process...</b></p>
</div>
<div class="thrv-numbered_list thrv_wrapper" data-start-number="1" data-number-increment="1" data-css="tve-u-161572dc992">
<ul class="tcb-numbered-list">
<li class="thrv-styled-list-item">
<div class=" tcb-no-clone tve_no_drag tcb-no-delete
thrv_wrapper thrv-disabled-label tcb-numbered-list-number
" data-css="tve-u-161572dc996"><span class="tcb-numbered-list-index">1</span></div>
<span class=" tve_editable thrv-advanced-inline-text
tcb-no-delete tcb-numbered-list-text" data-css="tve-u-161572dc993">Gather your participants
together and briefly explain how Open Space events work
using Harrison Owen’s 1 Law and the Guiding Principles
as appropriate. Traditionally you should do this with
everyone in a circle around you<font class="" color="#ff91ff"> but you don’t necessarily have to.</font><font class="" color="#8effff"> </font></span></li>
<li class="thrv-styled-list-item">
<div class=" tcb-no-clone tve_no_drag tcb-no-delete
thrv_wrapper thrv-disabled-label tcb-numbered-list-number
" data-css="tve-u-161572dc995"><span class="tcb-numbered-list-index">2</span></div>
<span class=" tve_editable thrv-advanced-inline-text
tcb-no-delete tcb-numbered-list-text" data-css="tve-u-161572dc993"><font class="" color="#ff91ff">Ask participants to spend 10 minutes
thinking through </font><font class="">if they have any issues they’d like to
raise.</font></span></li>
<li class="thrv-styled-list-item">
<div class=" tcb-no-clone tve_no_drag tcb-no-delete
thrv_wrapper thrv-disabled-label tcb-numbered-list-number
" data-css="tve-u-161572dc995"><span class="tcb-numbered-list-index">3</span></div>
<span class=" tve_editable thrv-advanced-inline-text
tcb-no-delete tcb-numbered-list-text" data-css="tve-u-161572dc993" style="font-style: normal;"><font class="" color="#ff91ff">If there is a general
agreement that the issue has enough support and
passion behind it invite the issue owner to add the
issue to the schedule.</font></span></li>
<li class="thrv-styled-list-item">
<div class=" tcb-no-clone tve_no_drag tcb-no-delete
thrv_wrapper thrv-disabled-label tcb-numbered-list-number
" data-css="tve-u-161572dc995"><span class="tcb-numbered-list-index">4</span></div>
<span class=" tve_editable thrv-advanced-inline-text
tcb-no-delete tcb-numbered-list-text" data-css="tve-u-161572dc993">Once all issues have been
added invite the participants to sign-up for the
sessions they’re planning on attending (they are free to
change their mind later if they want to).</span></li>
<li class="thrv-styled-list-item">
<div class=" tcb-no-clone tve_no_drag tcb-no-delete
thrv_wrapper thrv-disabled-label tcb-numbered-list-number
" data-css="tve-u-161572dc995"><span class="tcb-numbered-list-index">5</span></div>
<span class=" tve_editable thrv-advanced-inline-text
tcb-no-delete tcb-numbered-list-text" data-css="tve-u-161572dc993">Your sessions start.</span></li>
</ul>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">There is much more on this page that, as I see
it, is NOT "the traditional Open Space Process“. I am giving
just some further examples:</div>
<div class=""><a href="https://workshopbank.com/open-space-technology" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://workshopbank.com/open-space-technology</a></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="tve-cb tve_empty_dropzone">
<div class="thrv_heading thrv_wrapper" data-tag="h2">
<h2 class="">Process for a Session</h2>
</div>
<div class="thrv-numbered_list thrv_wrapper" data-start-number="1" data-number-increment="1" data-css="tve-u-1615732417d">
<ul class="tcb-numbered-list">
<li class="thrv-styled-list-item">
<div class=" tcb-no-clone tve_no_drag tcb-no-delete
thrv_wrapper thrv-disabled-label tcb-numbered-list-number
" data-css="tve-u-16157324181"><span class="tcb-numbered-list-index">1</span></div>
<span class=" thrv-advanced-inline-text
tcb-numbered-list-text tcb-no-delete tve_editable" data-css="tve-u-1615732417e">Each session should be a
round group of chairs (no table in the middle) <font class="" color="#ff91ff">with preferably one
facilitator to lead the discussion and a scribe on
the flip-chart.</font></span></li>
<li class="thrv-styled-list-item">
<div class=" tcb-no-clone tve_no_drag tcb-no-delete
thrv_wrapper thrv-disabled-label tcb-numbered-list-number
" data-css="tve-u-16157324180"><span class="tcb-numbered-list-index">2</span></div>
<span class=" thrv-advanced-inline-text
tcb-numbered-list-text tcb-no-delete tve_editable" data-css="tve-u-1615732417e">A session starts with the
issue owner welcoming and thanking the group for
coming and then giving a description of the issue as
they see it.</span></li>
<li class="thrv-styled-list-item">
<div class=" tcb-no-clone tve_no_drag tcb-no-delete
thrv_wrapper thrv-disabled-label tcb-numbered-list-number
" data-css="tve-u-16157324180"><span class="tcb-numbered-list-index">3</span></div>
<span class=" thrv-advanced-inline-text
tcb-numbered-list-text tcb-no-delete tve_editable" data-css="tve-u-1615732417e"><font class="" color="#ff91ff">The facilitator then leads the
discussion</font> inviting people to give their
input at their request.</span></li>
<li class="thrv-styled-list-item">
<div class=" tcb-no-clone tve_no_drag tcb-no-delete
thrv_wrapper thrv-disabled-label tcb-numbered-list-number
" data-css="tve-u-16157324180"><span class="tcb-numbered-list-index">4</span></div>
<span class=" thrv-advanced-inline-text
tcb-numbered-list-text tcb-no-delete tve_editable" data-css="tve-u-1615732417e"><font class="" color="#ff91ff">The scribe records the discussion on
flip chart paper making sure</font> to mark Issues,
Ideas, Questions (that can’t be answered today) &
Actions. <font class="" color="#ff91ff">When a flip
is finished they should tear it off</font> and put
it in the center of the circle or on a nearby wall for
people in the group to see.</span></li>
<li class="thrv-styled-list-item">
<div class=" tcb-no-clone tve_no_drag tcb-no-delete
thrv_wrapper thrv-disabled-label tcb-numbered-list-number
" data-css="tve-u-16157324180"><span class="tcb-numbered-list-index">5</span></div>
<span class=" thrv-advanced-inline-text
tcb-numbered-list-text tcb-no-delete tve_editable" data-css="tve-u-1615732417e">Allow people to leave and
arrive as they see fit though <font class="" color="#ff91ff">don’t allow them to interrupt or
slow-down your progress.</font> It is a new
arrival’s responsibility to catch-up with the
discussion using the flip chart outputs no matter how
high up or important they are.</span></li>
<li class="thrv-styled-list-item">
<div class=" tcb-no-clone tve_no_drag tcb-no-delete
thrv_wrapper thrv-disabled-label tcb-numbered-list-number
" data-css="tve-u-16157324180"><span class="tcb-numbered-list-index">6</span></div>
<span class=" thrv-advanced-inline-text
tcb-numbered-list-text tcb-no-delete tve_editable" data-css="tve-u-1615732417e"><font class="" color="#ff91ff">When the issue looks like it has
been covered and there are no more inputs coming
from your group thank them for their time and invite
them to join other groups if the session time is not
over.</font></span></li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">To me, calling this description "the traditional
Open Space Process“ I wonder if</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-
I am totally rigid and should just loosen up to the variations
of OST</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-
You have never experienced a traditional Open Space Process</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-
You just don’t care about the originality and instead rather
cater to business needs of controlled processes that limit
self-organisation</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-
I misremember all my trainings with Harrison Owen, Michael M
Pannwitz, Michael Pannwitz jr, Joe Töpfer, and last but not
least Birgitt Williams. </div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-
or… ?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I totally don’t get it. </div>
<div class="">I don’t like what you are doing.</div>
<div class="">I also dislike that you market this description of
„the traditional Open Space Process“ as „a popular WorkshopBank
Tool“.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I feel sad when I imagine people following your
description and spreading the word that „this is the traditional
way of doing OST“.</div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Using my former analogy: </div>
</div>
<div class="">I imagine what you are doing is like a beverage shop
introducing someone who has never tasted a good red wine to that
beverage.</div>
<div class="">Because this person usually drink coke, they are
being given red wine mixed with coke (to match their taste
buds).</div>
<div class="">And then they are being told, „this is a traditional
Cabernet Sauvignon“.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I want you to revise your description and move your
adaptions away from "the original version" to „OST with a
twist“.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Are you willing to do that?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">Probably even better: Call it „…………….. - a process
partly inspired by Open Space Technology“ </div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I look forward to your response,</div>
<div class="">Marai</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/marai-kiele/" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.linkedin.com/in/marai-kiele/</a></div>
<div class=""><a href="https://about.me/maraikiele" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://about.me/maraikiele</a></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
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