<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Hello Sarah,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Very good question!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In SoL (Society for Organizational Learning if someone doesn’t know) we have had the same dilemma (more rules to achieve higher levels of cooperation OR more self-organisation to achieve higher levels of innovation?) for the last 10 years. Just like you, Peter Senge also created a team to deal with it back in 2009 which was named "Group25 for the evolution of SoL”. In the team we created a governance sub-team (in which I was) to deal exactly and only with this dilemma. We worked for almost 2 years (if I remember correctly) studying all the various governance models that we could find (from Dee Hock’s Chaordic Design to the EU governance model) but at the end we were not able to provide an answer to this dilemma. The issue remains unresolved until today... </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Warm greetings and best wishes,</div><div class="">Anthi</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0px;"><i class=""><b class="">Anthi Theiopoulou</b></i></span></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0px;"><i class=""><b class="">MSc International Management</b></i></span></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0px;"><b class=""> </b></span></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 16px; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; min-height: 18px;"><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0px;"></span><br class=""></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0px;"><b class="" style="font-size: 11px;"><i class="">CEO &Principal Researcher</i></b><i class="" style="font-size: 11px;">, <b class="">Organizational Learning Self Evaluation Tool </b>(</i><font color="#011686" class=""><b class="">OLSET</b></font><i class="" style="font-size: 11px;"><b class=""> Ltd</b>)</i></span></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px;"><span class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 11px; letter-spacing: 0px;"><i class="">Innovation Warehouse, </i></span><font face="Times New Roman" class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11px;"><i class="">1 E Poultry Avenue London EC1A 9PT United Kingdom</i></span></font><i class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 11px; letter-spacing: 0px;">, </i><a href="http://www.olset.org/" id="LPlnk224748" class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 11px; letter-spacing: 0px;"><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(2, 30, 170);"><i class="">www.olset.org</i></span></a><i class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 11px; letter-spacing: 0px;"> </i></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0px;"><b class=""><i class="">President</i></b><i class="">, <b class="">Hellenic Society for Organizational Learning</b> (</i><font color="#011686" class=""><b class="">SoL Greece </b></font><i class=""><b class="">NGO</b>)</i></span></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0px;"><i class="">Od. Androutsou 22, 141 23, Lykovrisi, Athens, Greece, </i><a href="http://www.solgreece.org/" class=""><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(2, 30, 170);"><i class="">www.solgreece.org</i></span></a><i class=""> </i></span></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><i class=""><b class="">Co-founder & Director, Dias Assets Limited</b></i></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px;"><font face="Times New Roman" class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11px;"><i class="">13 Herbert Crescent London SW1X 0HB United Kingdom, <u class=""><font color="#1033f5" class=""><a href="http://www.diasassets.com/" class="">www.diasassets.com</a></font></u></i></span></font></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><font face="Times New Roman" class=""><b class=""><i class=""><br class=""></i></b></font></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; min-height: 12px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0px;"><i class=""><b class="">Contact details:</b></i></span></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0px;"><b class=""><i class="">personal email: </i><a href="mailto:a.theiopoulou@acg.edu" class=""><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(2, 30, 170);"><i class="">a.theiopoulou@acg.edu</i></span></a></b></span></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0px;"><i class=""><b class="">p.a. mobile number: +306944138507</b></i></span></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0px;"><i class=""><b class=""><br class=""></b></i></span></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><b class=""><i class=""><font color="#ff2c48" class="">NEW BOOK</font>: "Doing More With Less; Organizational Learning and the OLSET tool"</i></b></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px;"><font face="Times New Roman" class=""><i class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11px;">Make your organization ready for any future. A</span></i></font><i class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 11px;">vailable from:<b class=""> </b></i><a href="http://olset.org/book" class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 11px;">www.olset.org/book</a><font face="Times New Roman" class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11px;"> and Amazon.</span></font></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><b class=""><i class=""><br class=""></i></b></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; min-height: 15px;"><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0px;"></span><br class=""></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Arial;"><span class="" style="font-size: 21px; font-family: Webdings; letter-spacing: 0px;"></span><span class="" style="font-size: 9px; letter-spacing: 0px;"> </span><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0px;"><b class="">Please consider the environment before printing this message.</b></span></div><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; margin: 0px; font-size: 10px; font-family: Arial;"><span class="" style="letter-spacing: 0px;">Confidentiality Warning: This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s), are confidential, and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, conversion to hard copy, copying, circulation or other use of this message and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return email, and delete this message and any attachments from your system. Thank you!</span></div></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 23 Aug 2018, at 13:04, Sarah Grange via OSList <<a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" class="">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">The question of “Safe spaces” has come up recently in our regular OST programme, following some incidents where participants felt there was racism and transphobia at our big annual event. There was a request for more rules or guidelines, which we’ve resisted, but it’s a thorny old issue because not everyone feels strong enough to call out bad behaviour when it happens, and the natural reaction is to look to us as organisers to discipline or regulate behaviour. There’s also a tendency for people to report bad behaviour after the event, so we’re unable to support or facilitate a conversation in the moment. I don’t know what to do about this beyond keep on having the conversation with participants. We eventually held an <a href="https://www.devotedanddisgruntled.com/Event/devoted-disgruntled-allies" class="">OS specifically on the question of supporting people within Os</a> and there was considerable disagreement, with <a href="https://www.devotedanddisgruntled.com/Blog/does-dd-need-rules" class="">some participants calling for rules</a> or <a href="https://www.devotedanddisgruntled.com/Blog/i-think-there-is-a-lot-of-assuming-prejudging-and-snap-comments-made-at-d-d-that-have-negative-impac" class="">stronger guidelines on how to hold conversations</a> and <a href="https://www.devotedanddisgruntled.com/Blog/dd-producers-ally-to-do-list" class="">others (including me)</a> feeling that would disempower people rather than support them, and was totally un-OST. The issue remains unresolved, so I’d love to know if anyone has tried anything along the guidelines/participant-led codes of conduct etc and whether there was any success with that.. <div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 21 Aug 2018, at 21:31, <a href="mailto:oslist-request@lists.openspacetech.org" class="">oslist-request@lists.openspacetech.org</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">Send OSList mailing list submissions to<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" class="">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br class=""><br class="">To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" class="">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a><br class="">or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>oslist-request@lists.openspacetech.org<br class=""><br class="">You can reach the person managing the list at<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>oslist-owner@lists.openspacetech.org<br class=""><br class="">When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br class="">than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..."<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Today's Topics:<br class=""><br class=""> 1. Re: (Rolf F. Katzenberger)<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">----------------------------------------------------------------------<br class=""><br class="">Message: 1<br class="">Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 22:27:04 +0200<br class="">From: "Rolf F. Katzenberger" <rolf.katzenberger@gmx.net><br class="">To: World wide Open Space Technology email list<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>, David Osborne via OSList<br class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><oslist@lists.openspacetech.org><br class="">Subject: Re: [OSList] A Question About Safety<br class="">Message-ID: <AD226D32-0425-48E7-9A00-D630206BB9AE@gmx.net><br class="">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class=""><br class="">David,<br class=""><br class="">Having read your later explanation of "safe", I feel it's also useful to look a bit closer at "self-organization".<br class=""><br class="">From a systemic perspective, it is impossible for a complex system (like an org, or a group of people within) to *not* self-organize. It does not matter whether conditions are great, indifferent or lousy, groups of people will self-organize and adapt, as they always have.<br class=""><br class="">So, while we may be unhappy about the *results* of it, self-organization in itself cannot be stopped by too much safety. It is a capability and power we can always rely on, for better or worse.<br class=""><br class="">It seems we rather need to focus more on the desired results, i.e. on the words immediately following the word "self-organizing...". Like e.g. "... team". By stressing "self-organization" instead, and e.g. contrasting it to "passiveness" or "complacency" or "too much safety", we might simply be barking up the wrong tree.<br class=""><br class="">So, coming back to your question, I'd reply with another question: If you're not happy about the current results of self-organization - what different results would you like to see, instead, and how could you modify the conditions so that it becomes more likely for self-organization to work towards the desired results.<br class=""><br class="">Just my 2 cents,<br class="">Rolf<br class=""><br class="">Am 21. August 2018 06:49:20 MESZ schrieb David Osborne via OSList <oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>:<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">Greetings all,<br class=""><br class="">I have questions about safety related to self-organization I would love<br class="">others thoughts on.<br class=""><br class="">Is it possible for an environment can be too safe to support<br class="">self-organization? Can safety be at such a high level that it inhibits<br class="">or<br class="">slows down the self-organizing process?<br class=""><br class="">I'm very interested to hear others perspectives.<br class=""><br class="">Best to all,<br class=""><br class="">David<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">*David R. Osborne*<br class="">Organization and Leadership Development<br class=""><br class="">6402 Arlington Blvd., Suite 1120, Falls Church, VA 22042<br class="">703-939-1777 | dosborne@change-fusion.com | change-fusion.com<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">-- <br class="">?If it works, it's right.? | ?Richtig ist, was funktioniert.?<br class="">http://www.pragmatic-teams.com | http://www.pragmatic-teams.de<br class="">http://fromthebackoftheroom.training | http://fromthebackoftheroom.training/de<br class="">-------------- next part --------------<br class="">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br class="">URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180821/1913ef75/attachment-0001.html><br class=""><br class="">------------------------------<br class=""><br class="">Subject: Digest Footer<br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">OSList mailing list<br class="">To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org<br class="">To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org<br class="">To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:<br class="">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org<br class="">Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org<br class=""><br class="">------------------------------<br class=""><br class="">End of OSList Digest, Vol 88, Issue 12<br class="">**************************************<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">OSList mailing list<br class="">To post send emails to <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org" class="">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br class="">To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org" class="">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br class="">To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:<br class=""><a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" class="">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a><br class="">Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>