<div dir="ltr">wasn't actually intended as personal feedback, daniel. was meant to be a comment on the territory we all share, even when we might, any of us, feel in the moment like an outsider, that disorientation is actually a part of being included in the experience of open space. <div><br></div><div>as for the essay, i guess i'm still a little unclear about the connection. open space doesn't strike me as any sort of striving for structurelessness. and i've seen both formal and informal structure arise in open space. harrison's term in his "millennial organization" book and what i've seen happen is "appropriate levels of structure and control." </div><div><br></div><div>the oslist doesn't seem structureless, either. there are all kinds of limiting and supporting structures that make it possible. and then there are the customs we've developed, like it's common and desired for people to reply to the whole list with answers to questions, and even personal stories and sidebars, rather than always taking that stuff to private emails. much of the informal stuff was captured in chris corrigan's oslist faq's i mentioned earlier. and these things change. the address changed. the admin changed. the archives moved but survived, thanks to harold. now we allow attachments. the archives were private and later became publicly searchable. new people show up all the time, and join in. the user's non-guide (ebook) captured one great moment in joining when julie smith showed up very new to all of this, asked some great questions, and sparked all kinds of conversation on many important dimensions of the practice. </div><div><br></div><div>maybe your definition of structure will also define structureless. i guess i don't know what ever could be structureless, in line wiht chris' story... except that everything's moving, it's all flow, as harrison says. but maybe those two stories aren't at odds, either... some bits are just more dense or more slowly flowing than others, but it's all flow in the end. is flow structureless? </div><div><br></div><div>is the tyranny of structurelessness just to say that everything's moving, and moving on, even the parts we really like, and that can make for some difficult experiences... that would also be nobody's fault, but just part of the shared condition? uncomfortable in spots, to be sure, but nobody's and no system's "fault" or "responsibility?" </div><div><br></div><div>as mentioned earlier, OS and the circle don't make people equal. some will always be better, faster, stronger, more attractive, more connected than others. is thta a problem to be solved? i'm having some trouble connecting "elites," "movement," "authorization" and some other terms in the essay to my experience in open space and on the list. the essay seems to want to fix a problem, but one that's not familiar to me, at least not as a sort of thing to be solved. </div><div><br></div><div>why is this essay important for you? how does it inform your understanding and practice of open space? or your participation on the oslist? are we a movement? are you an elite? is open space at risk of being taken over? help me make the connection(s)? </div><div><br></div><div>i notice that you said in your first message that you find this "extremely interesting" but you've yet to say why.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div> <br>--<br><br>Michael Herman<br>Michael Herman Associates<br><a href="http://MichaelHerman.com" target="_blank">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br><a href="http://OpenSpaceWorld.org" target="_blank">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br><br></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Daniel Mezick <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dan@newtechusa.net" target="_blank">dan@newtechusa.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Yo Michael, <br>
<br>
The whole "story-context-is-missing" thing is really just a sidebar
to the important (and much wider) issues around authority. <br>
<br>
These authority-issues are raised by the subject essay, "The Tyranny
of Structurelessness." What a great essay!<br>
<br>
Story-context is a really, really important topic though, especially
if "missing-context" does have at least the potential to evoke
feelings of exclusion, in at least some members of the list.<br>
<br>
Regarding some of the things you are saying:<br>
<br>
You say, "Exclusion is the illusion. A little bit of errant and
temporary mental structure."<br>
<br>
I say, my current belief is that my feelings are not illusion
whatsoever, nor are they error. Rather they are real and valid,
human emotions. They are emotions which, when experienced fully, are
in fact an essential aspect of living well.<br>
<br>
<br>
You say, "...I notice the word tyranny again in the subject. Is it
not some kind of tyranny we all attempt over and over again when we
expect and insist that the world explain itself to/for us?"<br>
<br>
I say, my current belief is that inquiry is not simply important, it
is in fact essential. Inquiry is good.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
In any event, and as always, I do appreciate your feedback. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I am now keen to get back to the main topic ! <br>
<br>
I wonder how we might, in the here and now, go about defining the
term "structure," for purposes of further discussing issues raised
by this essay with much more clarity. <br>
<br>
That's a question I'm keen to explore with you, and the other
members of this list, inside this thread.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Daniel <br>
<a href="http://www.Prime-OS.com" target="_blank">http://www.Prime-OS.com</a><div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 10/6/15 11:56 AM, Michael Herman
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">Yes and Daniel, there are the words of a story and the
feeling/meaning of it. I considered writing a longer message in
the telling of this story, but I wanted to transmit as much of the
spirit/experience of it as I could.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ralph didn't offer any explanation of his observation that
morning. He did just like I said, got up in a morning news
circle, it was an OTgathering as I noted but that doesn't
matter, it was open space and morning news. He said his piece
and sat down. The experience for me, and others I have learned
only later, was stunning and disorienting, for sure. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I thought to honor and convey this experience through some
measure of similar brevity in my retelling. Maybe this is what
you picked up on. The disorienting magic of Ralph's moment. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are moments in open space of surprise and disconnect,
maybe frustration or confusion or misunderstanding or
disorientation and even disappointment that arise in open space.
This we all know and have experienced. This, to me, is not so
much a thing to be solved but the nature of the territory. It
just is. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
Ralph never did explain his statement, as far as I know. He had
something to say and he said it. That was his only job. After
that, each of us had to figure out for ourselves what, if
anything, to do with his story, to decide if it was wisdom or
wisecrack. The storyteller, I think, has only the responsibility
for finding and sharing what's true for him/her. The rest is up
to us.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Maybe this points to the learning and challenge that we all
have in open space, namely learning to trust more and more that
we already are always included in a flow that is bigger and
deeper or whatever than we can see or understand or articulate
sometimes. Exclusion is the illusion. A little bit of errant and
temporary mental structure. Discomfort is not a problem (and
can't be solved by anyone!); it's a trail marker. Which is to
say about exclusion and missing out, "welcome!" The good news
is, and the bad news is, you're in! And, it's all still
happening Now. <span></span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As I scroll up to send tha now, I notice the word tyranny
again in the subject. Is it not some kind of tyranny we all
attempt over and over again when we expect and insist that the
world explain itself to/for us? Is this not something of our
central challenge, something all of us work with? The edge of
open space is an end of comfortable,
conventional understanding? Or something?<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<div><br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
On Tuesday, October 6, 2015, Daniel Mezick via OSList <<a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Hi Harrison,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the tips on how to search OSLIST and
Google, etc. I did do those things actually. However,
that's a bit of an effort, especially searching the
OSLIST archives. I guess I could eventually pick up
OSLIST culture that way, little by little. I suppose
an earnest person with loads of time could sift
through OSLIST archives to figure this culture out.
The hard way. <br>
<br>
However, like the SPIRIT book teaches, there is
nothing like a good story to convey culture. The kind
of story with a beginning, a middle and an end.<br>
<br>
I notice that, when you are the one referring to a
certain OS-mythos story, you usually tend to include
the short list of pertinent details, the essential
details that provide the essential context, so the
reader can follow along, and engage.<br>
<br>
And I'm always grateful for that, as it helps me to
follow along, and get what you are referring to, and
more fully understand the story, and feel oddly
included in the story. <br>
<br>
<br>
Earlier, I express how not having the context tends to
(for me) arouse feelings of: exclusion, cluelessness,
and a general lack of membership in whatever
"historic-OS-mythos-episode" is being referred to.
Sort of an "out group" feeling. You know? Sometimes, I
wonder what the poster might be thinking by posting
random fragments of a "you had to be there" kind of
story. Other times, I wonder if other readers are also
feeling these feelings. Or if it is "just me."<br>
<br>
And so: I am very grateful for your stories, in part
because you include the pertinent details, and in so
doing, make me (for one) feel included. <br>
<br>
So thanks for including the context in your stories.
It makes them fun, and easy to follow. OSLIST culture
certainly has it's quirks, and for me, your stories
make this culture easier to figure out, and navigate,
and enjoy.<br>
<br>
<br>
Getting back to the Tyranny of Structurelessness: <br>
<br>
Do you think these 3 assertions by the author are
actually true? Do these ideas have legs?<br>
<ul>
<li><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD">This hegemony can be so easily
established because the idea of
"structurelessness" does not prevent the
formation of informal structures, only formal
ones.</span></i></li>
<li><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span><span></span></span></span><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD">For everyone to have the
opportunity to be involved in a given group
and to participate in its activities, the
structure must be explicit, not implicit. </span></i></li>
<li><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD">It is this informal structure,
particularly in Unstructured groups, which
forms the basis for elites.</span></i></li>
</ul>
<br>
Daniel <br>
<br>
<div>On 10/6/15 10:04 AM, Harrison Owen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dan,
Google can often help. <a href="https://www.google.com/#q=ralph+copleman" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://www.google.com/#q=ralph+copleman" target="_blank">https://www.google.com/#q=ralph+copleman</a>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">ho</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
OSList [<a>mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Daniel Mezick via
OSList<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 05, 2015 4:51
PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Harrison Owen; World wide Open
Space Technology email list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSList] The Tyranny
of Structurelessness</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Howdy
Harrison,<br>
<br>
Thanks for describing the context of the Ralph
Copleman story- I'm very thankful for that info.<br>
<br>
I notice that, lots of times here, there are
references made to notable OST episodes, and
situations from times past... <br>
<br>
...the "OST-mythos" as it were. <br>
<br>
These mythical stories often have me wondering
what I missed, and what I might now be missing.
(Being clueless as I am.) <br>
<br>
I'm sure these story-fragment postings are not
posted with intent to exclude anyone, or to be
discourteous, or unkind. More like: some good
old basic camaraderie is taking place between
some old friends.<br>
<br>
Still: Do these "inside-story-fragments" on
OSLIST tend to evoke feelings of exclusion in
readers who were <i>not</i> there at the time?
<br>
<br>
Not sure. <br>
<br>
<CONFESSION><br>
<br>
As for me, personally, I sometimes find myself
experiencing curiously odd feelings of
exclusion, when a told-fragment of an old
OST-mythos story lacks explicit context. So I
can follow the story, you know? The terms
"outsider" or "clueless" or "not in the story"
describe these feelings fairly well. "Not
invited?"<br>
<br>
I sometimes wonder if some of the hundreds of <i>other</i>
members of OSLIST ever feel this way...or if it
is "just me." <br>
<br>
</CONFESSION><br>
<br>
Daniel <br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
On 10/4/15 2:59 PM, Harrison Owen via OSList
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€œEverything</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
is moving.â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€
 .... Michael -- I remember that moment
very</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
well. And Dan, Iâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€™m
not sure the context, etc, would help</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
very much. But just for the record the odd
phrase popped out at one of the
International Symposia on Organization
Transformation which happened to be taking
place at a small college south of Seattle. I
have no idea why Ralph said what he did, and
Iâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€™m
not sure Ralph did either. But then again</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
a lot of marvelous stuff seems to burst out
with no obvious logic train. Indeed it may
be that the lack of logic train enables the
thought?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Whatever
the genesis, the phrase wandered about my
head for some time, quite unattached, and it
also happened that I was working my way
slowly through one of the masterpieces of 20<sup>th</sup>
century western philosophy when a fuzzy
connection began to form. The work was that
of Alfred North Whitehead, and the title: â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€œProcess
and Reality.†I’ve been through the</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
book probably 4-5 times, and I am frank to
confess that I donâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€™t
think I really understand</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
it. But then again Iâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€™ve</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
heard a number of people with much greater
credentials, tenure, etc â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€“
say the same thing. But I did get that it</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
had something to do with, â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€œEverything
is moving.†And</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
the more I thought and read, the more I felt
that the good philosopher had made a small
mistake on his title. It shouldnâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€™t
be “Process</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
<i>and</i> Reality,â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€
but rather</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€œProcess</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
<b>is</b> Reality.â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Now,
Anna Caroline we come to â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€œstructure,â€
or perhaps I</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
should say the fallacy of Structure? Yes I
know â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€“
we’</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">ve
all been taught that structure is the
precursor, the â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€œdeterminatorâ€
of everything. My face looks as it does</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
because of my bone structure. My life
proceeds the way it does because of my
social structure. My business works as it
does because of the organizational
structure. And of course, meetings happen
the way they do because of meeting
structure, which apparently is the prime
domain of â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€œfacilitators.â€
And even if we hadn’t been</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€œtaughtâ€
all this, the primacy of structure would
appear</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
to be blatantly obvious â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€“
as plain as the nose on your</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
face. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Unfortunately,
it does seem to turn out that sometimes the
blatantly obvious is not necessarily so. For
example just looking at things it is pretty
clear that the world is flat, or at the
least bumpy flat. And any fool can see that
we are the center of it all â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€“
Sun, moon, and stars whiz around us. </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
But when we think about it, as we have been
doing for the last 500-600 years, the
obvious isnâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€™t
so obvious.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">It
is reasonable to ask what would start to
make us think differently â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€“
to the point that we begin to question the</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
obvious, and even come to see things in a
different way? Taking a leap, I will suggest
that it all begins with the perception of
anomaly. Things just donâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€™t
make sense. O</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">ur
eyes tell us one thing... but???? And then
we start making up stories to explain the
apparently unexplainable. We imagine
different ways of looking at things so that
the nonsensical makes sense. Some of those
stories get pretty strange, but if they
actually work â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€“
that is to say, help</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
us to see in new and useful ways â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€“
that’s great</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">There
is, of course, a proper term for the
activity I have been describing. It is
called Theory Building. And for whatever it
is worth, â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€œtheoryâ€
comes from the G</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">reek
â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€œ</span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">theoreinâ</span></i><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€
</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€“
to see. In a word, theories are ways of
looking at</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
things â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€“
likely stories you might say.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Now,
at long last (too long?) we come to the odd
story I was starting to tell, to the effect
that Structure is only a figment of our
imagination, a flash frame of a moment gone
by. Interesting, and helpful under some
circumstances... but always partial and in a
sense illusory. Whatâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€™s</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€œreallyâ€
happening is all flow. Everything is moving
–</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
Thatâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€™s
Ralph’s story, and I guess it is </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">mine
too.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">So
how did I get to such a weird condition? It
was all about anomaly â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€“
more particularly, the anomaly of Open
Space.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
Everything that I had ever learned told me
that it could not work. Unfortunately it did
(work) â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€“
and not just once, but</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
every time, hundreds of thousands of times.
Something was definitely weird. It seemed to
me that I had to re-consider all those
things I thought I had learned, beginning
with the basics... such things as Structure.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Common
sense would say that Open Space works
because we somehow created a structure that
enabled it to work. Thatâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€™s
the</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
way things get done, or so I had been
taught. But thatâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€™s</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
not the way things happened in Open Space.
Structure emerged along the way and only
momentarily. Worse yet it (structure) seemed
to have little to do with the obvious power,
connections, creativity.... all of which
created structures, and passed them by. And
actually it always seemed to me that the â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€œstructuresâ€
I “saw†existed only because I</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
wanted to see them â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€“
or perhaps that I “should†see</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
them. But they were only momentary wisps,
figments â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€“
never</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
to be mistaken for what was really going on.
Or so Iâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">€™ve</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
been thinking.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Harrison</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Â </span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
OSList [<a>mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Herman via
OSList<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 03, 2015
6:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> JL Walker; World wide Open
Space Technology email list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSList] The Tyranny
of Structurelessness</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">you remind me, harrison,
of one morning news session years ago,
somewhere, probably OT... where ralph
copleman walked to the center of the circle
and announced, all serious and mischievous
at the same time, "it's all moving!" Â </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">then put the stick down
and went back to his seat. </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Â <br>
--<br>
<br>
Michael Herman<br>
Michael Herman Associates<br>
<a href="http://MichaelHerman.com" target="_blank">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br>
<a href="http://OpenSpaceWorld.org" target="_blank">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at
1:47 PM, JL Walker via OSList <<a></a><a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I was
thinking that maybe the antidote to
the eventual tyranny of
structurelessness is to open space,
again and again, until true
democracy can emerge.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Juan Luis</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Â </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="ES">De:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="ES"> OSList [mailto:<a></a><a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>]
<b>En nombre de </b>Rosa
Zubizarreta via OSList<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> sábado, 03 de
octubre de 2015 12:19<br>
<b>Para:</b> Daniel Mezick; World
wide Open Space Technology email
list<br>
<b>Asunto:</b> Re: [OSList] The
Tyranny of Structurelessness</span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD">Â </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD">Hi Daniel,</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD">Yes,
this is a key
piece... I see
it as very
similar in
some ways to
what Ken
Wilber wrote
later, </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD">about the "shadow side
of the green
meme". (Each
meme has its own
shadow, as well
as its own
gift...)</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD">So,
I love "green". I
love circles, I
love
non-hierarchy,
etc. <br>
And, part of the
"shadow side of
the green meme" is
how ideologically
anti-structure it
can become... </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD">to
the point where some
people may not even
agree that OST does,
in fact, offer a
very simple and
effective structure.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD">By way
contrast, think of a
situation where group
of people (who don't
know about OST,
and/or, who are having
a power struggle
around "which process
to use", and/or....Â
) might easily
spending a whole
weekend arguing <i>about
</i>"how to
self-organize
ourselves"... with a
great deal more pain
and frustration and a
great deal less value.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD">whereas,
instead, IF someone
knows about OST, and, a
clear invitation has
been extended, and,
there is enough
trust/suspension of
disbelief so that
participants are willing
to enter into that
format, <br>
<br>
then, we end up with a
very simple and elegant
structure that allows
people to self-organize
beautifully.... </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD">at least
that's how i see it! :-)</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD">with all best
wishes,</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD">Rosa</span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD">Â </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD"><br clear="all">
</span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang="ES-TRAD">Rosa
Zubizarreta</span></i></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><i><span lang="ES-TRAD">Developing
Participatory
and
Co-intelligent
Leadership<br>
Author of <a href="http://www.conflict2creativity.com" target="_blank"><b>From
Conflict to
Creative
Collaboration</b></a></span></i></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span lang="ES-TRAD">For
more resources and
learning
opportunities,
visit<br>
<b><a href="http://www.DiaPraxis.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.DiaPraxis.com" target="_blank">www.DiaPraxis.com</a></b></span></i></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD">Â </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD">On Sat, Oct
3, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Daniel
Mezick via OSList <<a></a><a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD">THE TYRANNY
of STRUCTURELESSNESS<br>
by Jo Freeman aka Joreen<br>
<br>
I find this essay
extremely interesting. I
hope you do, too. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Here is a pertinent quote,
from the essay:<br>
"...</span><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD">the idea
of "structurelessness"
does not prevent the
formation of informal
structures, only formal
ones."<br>
<br>
</span></i><span lang="ES-TRAD"><br>
Circa 1970. Context: the
women's movement. Quick
summary of the main
points: from the essay...</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>ï‚·<span> </span></span></span><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD">During
the years in which the
women's liberation
movement has been taking
shape, a great emphasis
has been placed on what
are called leaderless,
structureless groups as
the main -- if not sole
-- organizational form
of the movement. </span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>ï‚·<span> </span></span></span><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD">The idea
of "structurelessness,"
however, has moved from
a healthy counter to
those tendencies, to
becoming a goddess in
its own right.</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>ï‚·<span> </span></span></span><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD">Contrary
to what we would like to
believe, there is no
such thing as a
structureless group. </span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>ï‚·<span> </span></span></span><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD">This
means that to strive for
a structureless group is
as useful, and as
deceptive, as to aim at
an "objective" news
story, "value-free"
social science, or a
"free" economy. A
"laissez faire" group is
about as realistic as a
"laissez faire" society;
the idea becomes a
smokescreen for the
strong or the lucky to
establish unquestioned
hegemony over others. </span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>ï‚·<span> </span></span></span><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD">This
hegemony can be so
easily established
because the idea of
"structurelessness" does
not prevent the
formation of informal
structures, only formal
ones. </span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>ï‚·<span> </span></span></span><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD">For
everyone to have the
opportunity to be
involved in a given
group and to participate
in its activities, the
structure must be
explicit, not implicit.
</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>ï‚·<span> </span></span></span><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD">It is
this informal structure,
particularly in
Unstructured groups,
which forms the basis
for elites.</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD"><br>
<br>
Just in case you have not
yet encountered the full
text of this essay, here
it is: <br>
<br>
THE TYRANNY of
STRUCTURELESSNESS<br>
by Jo Freeman aka Joreen<br>
<a href="http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm" target="_blank">http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Daniel <br>
<a href="http://www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/about" target="_blank">http://www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/about</a><br>
<a href="http://www.DanielMezick.com" target="_blank">http://www.DanielMezick.com</a><br>
<a href="tel:203%20915%207248" target="_blank">203 915 7248</a></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD">Â </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Â </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
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<br>
</p>
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</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
<br>
</p>
<p>Daniel Mezick, President</p>
<p>New Technology Solutions Inc.</p>
<p><a href="tel:%28203%29%20915%207248" value="+12039157248" target="_blank">(203) 915 7248</a> (cell)</p>
<p><span><a href="http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/" target="_blank">Bio</a></span><span>. <a href="http://newtechusa.net/blog/" target="_blank"><span>Blog</span></a>. <a href="http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/" target="_blank"><span>Twitter</span></a>.</span><span><span style="color:black">Â </span></span></p>
<p><span>Examine my new book:</span><span><span style="color:black">Â </span></span><span><a href="http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/" target="_blank"><span>The Culture Game </span></a></span><span>:
Tools for the Agile Manager</span><span>.</span></p>
<p>Explore Agile Team <a href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/" target="_blank"><span>Training</span></a>
and <a href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/" target="_blank"><span>Coaching.</span></a></p>
<p>Explore the <a href="http://newtechusa.net/user-groups/ma/" target="_blank"><span>Agile Boston </span></a>Community.<span>Â </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div>-- <br>
<p>Daniel Mezick, President</p>
<p>New Technology Solutions Inc.</p>
<p><a href="tel:%28203%29%20915%207248" value="+12039157248" target="_blank">(203) 915 7248</a> (cell)</p>
<p><span><a href="http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/" target="_blank">Bio</a></span><span>. <a href="http://newtechusa.net/blog/" target="_blank"><span>Blog</span></a>. <a href="http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/" target="_blank"><span>Twitter</span></a>.<span> </span></span></p>
<p><span>Examine my new book:<span> </span><a href="http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/" target="_blank"><span>The Culture Game </span></a></span><span>:
Tools for the Agile Manager</span><span>.</span></p>
<p>Explore Agile Team <a href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/" target="_blank"><span>Training</span></a> and <a href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/" target="_blank"><span>Coaching.</span></a></p>
<p>Explore the <a href="http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/" target="_blank"><span>Agile Boston </span></a>Community.<span> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div> <br>
--<br>
<br>
Michael Herman<br>
Michael Herman Associates<br>
<a href="http://MichaelHerman.com" target="_blank">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br>
<a href="http://OpenSpaceWorld.org" target="_blank">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div>-- <br>
<p>Daniel Mezick, President</p>
<p>New Technology Solutions Inc.</p>
<p><a href="tel:%28203%29%20915%207248" value="+12039157248" target="_blank">(203) 915 7248</a> (cell)</p>
<p><span><a href="http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/" target="_blank">Bio</a></span><span>. <a href="http://newtechusa.net/blog/" target="_blank"><span>Blog</span></a>. <a href="http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/" target="_blank"><span>Twitter</span></a>.<span> </span></span></p>
<p><span>Examine my new book:<span> </span><a href="http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/" target="_blank"><span>The Culture Game </span></a></span><span>: Tools for the Agile Manager</span><span>.</span></p>
<p>Explore Agile Team <a href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/" target="_blank"><span>Training</span></a> and <a href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/" target="_blank"><span>Coaching.</span></a></p>
<p>Explore the <a href="http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/" target="_blank"><span>Agile
Boston </span></a>Community.<span> </span></p>
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