<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">My exploration of the Tao te Ching over the years has left me with the realization that structure and flow are co-arising: they come into being together and exist and mutually influence each other. How I live my life, shapes my body, and my body’s shape determines how I live my life, and both those things change together forever until I die and one or other of these things disappears. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The idea that one exists separate from the other is a kind of delusion. And ignoring the reality that both structure and flow arise together means that you end up imposing structure when you don’t think your are, or imposing flow when you don’t think you are, from a kind of blind spot. That can be quite dangerous to living systems.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Chris<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 6, 2015, at 11:00 AM, paul levy via OSList <<a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" class="">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Is this list a tyranny of structurelessness?</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On 6 October 2015 at 16:56, Michael Herman via OSList <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank" class="">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Yes and Daniel, there are the words of a story and the feeling/meaning of it. I considered writing a longer message in the telling of this story, but I wanted to transmit as much of the spirit/experience of it as I could. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ralph didn't offer any explanation of his observation that morning. He did just like I said, got up in a morning news circle, it was an OTgathering as I noted but that doesn't matter, it was open space and morning news. He said his piece and sat down. The experience for me, and others I have learned only later, was stunning and disorienting, for sure. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I thought to honor and convey this experience through some measure of similar brevity in my retelling. Maybe this is what you picked up on. The disorienting magic of Ralph's moment. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">There are moments in open space of surprise and disconnect, maybe frustration or confusion or misunderstanding or disorientation and even disappointment that arise in open space. This we all know and have experienced. This, to me, is not so much a thing to be solved but the nature of the territory. It just is. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div>Ralph never did explain his statement, as far as I know. He had something to say and he said it. That was his only job. After that, each of us had to figure out for ourselves what, if anything, to do with his story, to decide if it was wisdom or wisecrack. The storyteller, I think, has only the responsibility for finding and sharing what's true for him/her. The rest is up to us. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Maybe this points to the learning and challenge that we all have in open space, namely learning to trust more and more that we already are always included in a flow that is bigger and deeper or whatever than we can see or understand or articulate sometimes. Exclusion is the illusion. A little bit of errant and temporary mental structure. Discomfort is not a problem (and can't be solved by anyone!); it's a trail marker. Which is to say about exclusion and missing out, "welcome!" The good news is, and the bad news is, you're in! And, it's all still happening Now. <span class=""></span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As I scroll up to send tha now, I notice the word tyranny again in the subject. Is it not some kind of tyranny we all attempt over and over again when we expect and insist that the world explain itself to/for us? Is this not something of our central challenge, something all of us work with? The edge of open space is an end of comfortable, conventional understanding? Or something?<div class=""><div class="h5"><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><br class="">On Tuesday, October 6, 2015, Daniel Mezick via OSList <<a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank" class="">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class="">
Hi Harrison,<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks for the tips on how to search OSLIST and Google, etc. I did
do those things actually. However, that's a bit of an effort,
especially searching the OSLIST archives. I guess I could eventually
pick up OSLIST culture that way, little by little. I suppose an
earnest person with loads of time could sift through OSLIST archives
to figure this culture out. The hard way. <br class="">
<br class="">
However, like the SPIRIT book teaches, there is nothing like a good
story to convey culture. The kind of story with a beginning, a
middle and an end.<br class="">
<br class="">
I notice that, when you are the one referring to a certain OS-mythos
story, you usually tend to include the short list of pertinent
details, the essential details that provide the essential context,
so the reader can follow along, and engage.<br class="">
<br class="">
And I'm always grateful for that, as it helps me to follow along,
and get what you are referring to, and more fully understand the
story, and feel oddly included in the story. <br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Earlier, I express how not having the context tends to (for me)
arouse feelings of: exclusion, cluelessness, and a general lack of
membership in whatever "historic-OS-mythos-episode" is being
referred to. Sort of an "out group" feeling. You know? Sometimes, I
wonder what the poster might be thinking by posting random fragments
of a "you had to be there" kind of story. Other times, I wonder if
other readers are also feeling these feelings. Or if it is "just
me."<br class="">
<br class="">
And so: I am very grateful for your stories, in part because you
include the pertinent details, and in so doing, make me (for one)
feel included. <br class="">
<br class="">
So thanks for including the context in your stories. It makes them
fun, and easy to follow. OSLIST culture certainly has it's quirks,
and for me, your stories make this culture easier to figure out, and
navigate, and enjoy.<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Getting back to the Tyranny of Structurelessness: <br class="">
<br class="">
Do you think these 3 assertions by the author are actually true? Do
these ideas have legs?<br class="">
<ul class="">
<li class=""><i class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD" class="">This hegemony can be so easily established
because the idea of "structurelessness" does not prevent the
formation of informal structures, only formal ones.</span></i></li>
<li class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class=""><span class=""></span></span></span><i class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD" class="">For everyone to have the opportunity to be
involved in a given group and to participate in its
activities, the structure must be explicit, not implicit. </span></i><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></li>
<li class=""><i class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD" class="">It is this informal structure, particularly
in Unstructured groups, which forms the basis for elites.</span></i></li>
</ul>
<br class="">
Daniel <br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="">On 10/6/15 10:04 AM, Harrison Owen
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Dan,
Google can often help. <a href="https://www.google.com/#q=ralph+copleman" target="_blank" class="">https://www.google.com/#q=ralph+copleman</a>
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">ho<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p>
<div class="">
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext" class="">
OSList [<a class="">mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>] <b class="">On
Behalf Of </b>Daniel Mezick via OSList<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Monday, October 05, 2015 4:51 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> Harrison Owen; World wide Open Space
Technology email list<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of
Structurelessness<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Howdy
Harrison,<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks for describing the context of the Ralph Copleman story-
I'm very thankful for that info.<br class="">
<br class="">
I notice that, lots of times here, there are references made
to notable OST episodes, and situations from times past... <br class="">
<br class="">
...the "OST-mythos" as it were. <br class="">
<br class="">
These mythical stories often have me wondering what I missed,
and what I might now be missing. (Being clueless as I am.) <br class="">
<br class="">
I'm sure these story-fragment postings are not posted with
intent to exclude anyone, or to be discourteous, or unkind.
More like: some good old basic camaraderie is taking place
between some old friends.<br class="">
<br class="">
Still: Do these "inside-story-fragments" on OSLIST tend to
evoke feelings of exclusion in readers who were <i class="">not</i>
there at the time? <br class="">
<br class="">
Not sure. <br class="">
<br class="">
<CONFESSION><br class="">
<br class="">
As for me, personally, I sometimes find myself experiencing
curiously odd feelings of exclusion, when a told-fragment of
an old OST-mythos story lacks explicit context. So I can
follow the story, you know? The terms "outsider" or "clueless"
or "not in the story" describe these feelings fairly well.
"Not invited?"<br class="">
<br class="">
I sometimes wonder if some of the hundreds of <i class="">other</i>
members of OSLIST ever feel this way...or if it is "just me."
<br class="">
<br class="">
</CONFESSION><br class="">
<br class="">
Daniel <br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
On 10/4/15 2:59 PM, Harrison Owen via OSList wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€œEverything</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
is moving.â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€ Â
.... Michael -- I remember that moment very</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
well. And Dan, Iâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€™m
not sure the context, etc, would help</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
very much. But just for the record the odd phrase popped
out at one of the International Symposia on Organization
Transformation which happened to be taking place at a
small college south of Seattle. I have no idea why Ralph
said what he did, and Iâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€™m
not sure Ralph did either. But then again</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
a lot of marvelous stuff seems to burst out with no
obvious logic train. Indeed it may be that the lack of
logic train enables the thought?</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Whatever
the genesis, the phrase wandered about my head for some
time, quite unattached, and it also happened that I was
working my way slowly through one of the masterpieces of
20<sup class="">th</sup> century western philosophy when a fuzzy
connection began to form. The work was that of Alfred
North Whitehead, and the title: â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€œProcess
and Reality.†I’ve been through the</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
book probably 4-5 times, and I am frank to confess that I
donâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€™t
think I really understand</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
it. But then again Iâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€™ve</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
heard a number of people with much greater credentials,
tenure, etc â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€“
say the same thing. But I did get that it</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
had something to do with, â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€œEverything
is moving.†And</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
the more I thought and read, the more I felt that the good
philosopher had made a small mistake on his title. It
shouldnâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€™t
be “Process</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
<i class="">and</i> Reality,â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€
but rather</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€œProcess</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
<b class="">is</b> Reality.â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€ </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Now,
Anna Caroline we come to â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€œstructure,â€
or perhaps I</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
should say the fallacy of Structure? Yes I know â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€“
we’</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">ve
all been taught that structure is the precursor, the â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€œdeterminatorâ€
of everything. My face looks as it does</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
because of my bone structure. My life proceeds the way it
does because of my social structure. My business works as
it does because of the organizational structure. And of
course, meetings happen the way they do because of meeting
structure, which apparently is the prime domain of â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€œfacilitators.â€
And even if we hadn’t been</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€œtaughtâ€
all this, the primacy of structure would appear</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
to be blatantly obvious â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€“
as plain as the nose on your</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
face. </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Unfortunately,
it does seem to turn out that sometimes the blatantly
obvious is not necessarily so. For example just looking at
things it is pretty clear that the world is flat, or at
the least bumpy flat. And any fool can see that we are the
center of it all â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€“
Sun, moon, and stars whiz around us. </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
But when we think about it, as we have been doing for the
last 500-600 years, the obvious isnâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€™t
so obvious.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">It
is reasonable to ask what would start to make us think
differently â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€“
to the point that we begin to question the</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
obvious, and even come to see things in a different way?
Taking a leap, I will suggest that it all begins with the
perception of anomaly. Things just donâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€™t
make sense. O</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">ur
eyes tell us one thing... but???? And then we start making
up stories to explain the apparently unexplainable. We
imagine different ways of looking at things so that the
nonsensical makes sense. Some of those stories get pretty
strange, but if they actually work â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€“
that is to say, help</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
us to see in new and useful ways â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€“
that’s great</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">!</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">There
is, of course, a proper term for the activity I have been
describing. It is called Theory Building. And for whatever
it is worth, â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€œtheoryâ€
comes from the G</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">reek
â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€œ</span><i class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">theoreinâ</span></i><i class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€ </span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€“
to see. In a word, theories are ways of looking at</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
things â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€“
likely stories you might say.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Now,
at long last (too long?) we come to the odd story I was
starting to tell, to the effect that Structure is only a
figment of our imagination, a flash frame of a moment gone
by. Interesting, and helpful under some circumstances...
but always partial and in a sense illusory. Whatâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€™s</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€œreallyâ€
happening is all flow. Everything is moving –</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
Thatâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€™s
Ralph’s story, and I guess it is </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">mine
too.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">So
how did I get to such a weird condition? It was all about
anomaly â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€“
more particularly, the anomaly of Open Space.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
Everything that I had ever learned told me that it could
not work. Unfortunately it did (work) â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€“
and not just once, but</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
every time, hundreds of thousands of times. Something was
definitely weird. It seemed to me that I had to
re-consider all those things I thought I had learned,
beginning with the basics... such things as Structure.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Common
sense would say that Open Space works because we somehow
created a structure that enabled it to work. Thatâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€™s
the</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
way things get done, or so I had been taught. But thatâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€™s</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
not the way things happened in Open Space. Structure
emerged along the way and only momentarily. Worse yet it
(structure) seemed to have little to do with the obvious
power, connections, creativity.... all of which created
structures, and passed them by. And actually it always
seemed to me that the â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€œstructuresâ€
I “saw†existed only because I</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
wanted to see them â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€“
or perhaps that I “should†see</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
them. But they were only momentary wisps, figments â</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€“
never</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
to be mistaken for what was really going on. Or so Iâ</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">€™ve</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">
been thinking.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Harrison</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class="">
OSList [<a class="">mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Michael Herman via OSList<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Saturday, October 03, 2015 6:31 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> JL Walker; World wide Open Space Technology
email list<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of
Structurelessness</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal">Â <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">you remind me, harrison, of one morning
news session years ago, somewhere, probably OT... where
ralph copleman walked to the center of the circle and
announced, all serious and mischievous at the same time,
"it's all moving!" Â <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Â <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">then put the stick down and went back
to his seat. <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all" class="">
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Â <br class="">
--<br class="">
<br class="">
Michael Herman<br class="">
Michael Herman Associates<br class="">
<a href="http://michaelherman.com/" target="_blank" class="">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br class="">
<a href="http://openspaceworld.org/" target="_blank" class="">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal">Â <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 1:47 PM, JL
Walker via OSList <<a class="">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>>
wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">I was
thinking that maybe the antidote to the eventual
tyranny of structurelessness is to open space,
again and again, until true democracy can emerge.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Juan Luis</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="ES" class="">De:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="ES" class=""> OSList [mailto:<a class=""></a><a class="">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>]
<b class="">En nombre de </b>Rosa Zubizarreta via OSList<br class="">
<b class="">Enviado el:</b> sábado, 03 de octubre de 2015
12:19<br class="">
<b class="">Para:</b> Daniel Mezick; World wide Open Space
Technology email list<br class="">
<b class="">Asunto:</b> Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of
Structurelessness</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">Hi Daniel,</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">Yes, this is
a key piece... I see it as
very similar in some ways to
what Ken Wilber wrote later,
</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">about the
"shadow side of the green
meme". (Each meme has its own
shadow, as well as its own
gift...)</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">So, I love
"green". I love circles, I love
non-hierarchy, etc. <br class="">
And, part of the "shadow side of
the green meme" is how
ideologically anti-structure it
can become... </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">to the point where
some people may not even agree
that OST does, in fact, offer a
very simple and effective
structure.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">By way contrast,
think of a situation where group of
people (who don't know about OST,
and/or, who are having a power
struggle around "which process to
use", and/or.... ) might easily
spending a whole weekend arguing <i class="">about
</i>"how to self-organize
ourselves"... with a great deal more
pain and frustration and a great
deal less value.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">whereas, instead, IF
someone knows about OST, and, a clear
invitation has been extended, and,
there is enough trust/suspension of
disbelief so that participants are
willing to enter into that format, <br class="">
<br class="">
then, we end up with a very simple and
elegant structure that allows people
to self-organize beautifully.... </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">at least that's how i see
it! :-)</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">with all best wishes,</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">Rosa</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class=""><br clear="all" class="">
</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><i class=""><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">Rosa
Zubizarreta</span></i></b><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><i class=""><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">Developing
Participatory and
Co-intelligent Leadership<br class="">
Author of <a href="http://www.conflict2creativity.com/" target="_blank" class=""><b class="">From
Conflict to Creative
Collaboration</b></a></span></i><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><i class=""><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">For more
resources and learning
opportunities, visit<br class="">
<b class=""><a href="http://www.diapraxis.com/" target="_blank" class="">www.DiaPraxis.com</a></b></span></i><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 9:26
AM, Daniel Mezick via OSList <<a class=""></a><a class="">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>>
wrote:</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">THE TYRANNY of
STRUCTURELESSNESS<br class="">
by Jo Freeman aka Joreen<br class="">
<br class="">
I find this essay extremely interesting.
I hope you do, too. <br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Here is a pertinent quote, from the
essay:<br class="">
"...</span><i class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD" class="">the idea of
"structurelessness" does not prevent
the formation of informal structures,
only formal ones."<br class="">
<br class="">
</span></i><span lang="ES-TRAD" class=""><br class="">
Circa 1970. Context: the women's
movement. Quick summary of the main
points: from the essay...</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">ï‚·<span class=""> </span></span></span><i class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD" class="">During the years in
which the women's liberation movement
has been taking shape, a great
emphasis has been placed on what are
called leaderless, structureless
groups as the main -- if not sole --
organizational form of the movement. </span></i><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">ï‚·<span class=""> </span></span></span><i class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD" class="">The idea of
"structurelessness," however, has
moved from a healthy counter to those
tendencies, to becoming a goddess in
its own right.</span></i><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">ï‚·<span class=""> </span></span></span><i class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD" class="">Contrary to what we
would like to believe, there is no
such thing as a structureless group. </span></i><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">ï‚·<span class=""> </span></span></span><i class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD" class="">This means that to
strive for a structureless group is as
useful, and as deceptive, as to aim at
an "objective" news story,
"value-free" social science, or a
"free" economy. A "laissez faire"
group is about as realistic as a
"laissez faire" society; the idea
becomes a smokescreen for the strong
or the lucky to establish unquestioned
hegemony over others. </span></i><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">ï‚·<span class=""> </span></span></span><i class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD" class="">This hegemony can be so
easily established because the idea of
"structurelessness" does not prevent
the formation of informal structures,
only formal ones. </span></i><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">ï‚·<span class=""> </span></span></span><i class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD" class="">For everyone to have
the opportunity to be involved in a
given group and to participate in its
activities, the structure must be
explicit, not implicit. </span></i><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">ï‚·<span class=""> </span></span></span><i class=""><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" lang="ES-TRAD" class="">It is this informal
structure, particularly in
Unstructured groups, which forms the
basis for elites.</span></i><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
Just in case you have not yet
encountered the full text of this essay,
here it is: <br class="">
<br class="">
THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS<br class="">
by Jo Freeman aka Joreen<br class="">
<a href="http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm" target="_blank" class="">http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm</a><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br class="">
Daniel <br class="">
<a href="http://www.openspaceagility.com/about" target="_blank" class="">http://www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/about</a><br class="">
<a href="http://www.danielmezick.com/" target="_blank" class="">http://www.DanielMezick.com</a><br class="">
<a href="tel:203%20915%207248" target="_blank" class="">203 915 7248</a></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class=""><br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
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</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD" class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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</div><p class="MsoNormal">Â <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<pre class="">_______________________________________________<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></pre>
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</blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">-- <br class="">
<br class="">
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="">Daniel Mezick, President<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="">New Technology Solutions Inc.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class=""><a href="tel:%28203%29%20915%207248" value="+12039157248" target="_blank" class="">(203) 915 7248</a> (cell)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class=""><span class=""><a href="http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/" target="_blank" class="">Bio</a></span><span class="">. <a href="http://newtechusa.net/blog/" target="_blank" class=""><span class="">Blog</span></a>.
<a href="http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/" target="_blank" class=""><span class="">Twitter</span></a>.</span><span class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class=""><span class="">Examine my new book:</span><span class="">Â
</span><span class=""><a href="http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/" target="_blank" class=""><span class="">The Culture Game </span></a></span><span class="">: Tools for the Agile Manager</span><span class="">.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="">Explore Agile Team <a href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/" target="_blank" class=""><span class="">Training</span></a> and <a href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/" target="_blank" class=""><span class="">Coaching.</span></a><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="">Explore the <a href="http://newtechusa.net/user-groups/ma/" target="_blank" class=""><span class="">Agile Boston </span></a>Community.<span class="">Â </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<div class="">-- <br class=""><p class="">Daniel Mezick, President</p><p class="">New Technology Solutions Inc.</p><p class=""><a href="tel:%28203%29%20915%207248" value="+12039157248" target="_blank" class="">(203) 915 7248</a> (cell)</p><p class=""><span class=""><a href="http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/" target="_blank" class="">Bio</a></span><span class="">. <a href="http://newtechusa.net/blog/" target="_blank" class=""><span class="">Blog</span></a>. <a href="http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/" target="_blank" class=""><span class="">Twitter</span></a>.<span class=""> </span></span></p><p class=""><span class="">Examine my new book:<span class=""> </span><a href="http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/" target="_blank" class=""><span class="">The Culture Game </span></a></span><span class="">: Tools for the Agile Manager</span><span class="">.</span></p><p class="">Explore Agile Team <a href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/" target="_blank" class=""><span class="">Training</span></a> and <a href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/" target="_blank" class=""><span class="">Coaching.</span></a></p><p class="">Explore the <a href="http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/" target="_blank" class=""><span class="">Agile
Boston </span></a>Community.<span class=""> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div><br class=""><br class="">-- <br class=""><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""> <br class="">--<br class=""><br class="">Michael Herman<br class="">Michael Herman Associates<br class=""><a href="http://michaelherman.com/" target="_blank" class="">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br class=""><a href="http://openspaceworld.org/" target="_blank" class="">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class="">
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