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Hi Harrison,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the tips on how to search OSLIST and Google, etc. I did
do those things actually. However, that's a bit of an effort,
especially searching the OSLIST archives. I guess I could eventually
pick up OSLIST culture that way, little by little. I suppose an
earnest person with loads of time could sift through OSLIST archives
to figure this culture out. The hard way. <br>
<br>
However, like the SPIRIT book teaches, there is nothing like a good
story to convey culture. The kind of story with a beginning, a
middle and an end.<br>
<br>
I notice that, when you are the one referring to a certain OS-mythos
story, you usually tend to include the short list of pertinent
details, the essential details that provide the essential context,
so the reader can follow along, and engage.<br>
<br>
And I'm always grateful for that, as it helps me to follow along,
and get what you are referring to, and more fully understand the
story, and feel oddly included in the story. <br>
<br>
<br>
Earlier, I express how not having the context tends to (for me)
arouse feelings of: exclusion, cluelessness, and a general lack of
membership in whatever "historic-OS-mythos-episode" is being
referred to. Sort of an "out group" feeling. You know? Sometimes, I
wonder what the poster might be thinking by posting random fragments
of a "you had to be there" kind of story. Other times, I wonder if
other readers are also feeling these feelings. Or if it is "just
me."<br>
<br>
And so: I am very grateful for your stories, in part because you
include the pertinent details, and in so doing, make me (for one)
feel included. <br>
<br>
So thanks for including the context in your stories. It makes them
fun, and easy to follow. OSLIST culture certainly has it's quirks,
and for me, your stories make this culture easier to figure out, and
navigate, and enjoy.<br>
<br>
<br>
Getting back to the Tyranny of Structurelessness: <br>
<br>
Do you think these 3 assertions by the author are actually true? Do
these ideas have legs?<br>
<ul>
<li><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">This hegemony can be so easily established
because the idea of "structurelessness" does not prevent the
formation of informal structures, only formal ones.</span></i></li>
<li><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times
New Roman""></span></span></span><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">For everyone to have the opportunity to be
involved in a given group and to participate in its
activities, the structure must be explicit, not implicit. </span></i><o:p></o:p></li>
<li><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">It is this informal structure, particularly
in Unstructured groups, which forms the basis for elites.</span></i></li>
</ul>
<br>
Daniel <br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/6/15 10:04 AM, Harrison Owen
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dan,
Google can often help. <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.google.com/#q=ralph+copleman">https://www.google.com/#q=ralph+copleman</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ho<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
OSList [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org">mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Daniel Mezick via OSList<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 05, 2015 4:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Harrison Owen; World wide Open Space
Technology email list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of
Structurelessness<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Howdy
Harrison,<br>
<br>
Thanks for describing the context of the Ralph Copleman story-
I'm very thankful for that info.<br>
<br>
I notice that, lots of times here, there are references made
to notable OST episodes, and situations from times past... <br>
<br>
...the "OST-mythos" as it were. <br>
<br>
These mythical stories often have me wondering what I missed,
and what I might now be missing. (Being clueless as I am.) <br>
<br>
I'm sure these story-fragment postings are not posted with
intent to exclude anyone, or to be discourteous, or unkind.
More like: some good old basic camaraderie is taking place
between some old friends.<br>
<br>
Still: Do these "inside-story-fragments" on OSLIST tend to
evoke feelings of exclusion in readers who were <i>not</i>
there at the time? <br>
<br>
Not sure. <br>
<br>
<CONFESSION><br>
<br>
As for me, personally, I sometimes find myself experiencing
curiously odd feelings of exclusion, when a told-fragment of
an old OST-mythos story lacks explicit context. So I can
follow the story, you know? The terms "outsider" or "clueless"
or "not in the story" describe these feelings fairly well.
"Not invited?"<br>
<br>
I sometimes wonder if some of the hundreds of <i>other</i>
members of OSLIST ever feel this way...or if it is "just me."
<br>
<br>
</CONFESSION><br>
<br>
Daniel <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
On 10/4/15 2:59 PM, Harrison Owen via OSList wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Everything</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
is moving.â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Â
.... Michael -- I remember that moment very</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
well. And Dan, Iâ</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">m
not sure the context, etc, would help</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
very much. But just for the record the odd phrase popped
out at one of the International Symposia on Organization
Transformation which happened to be taking place at a
small college south of Seattle. I have no idea why Ralph
said what he did, and Iâ</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">m
not sure Ralph did either. But then again</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
a lot of marvelous stuff seems to burst out with no
obvious logic train. Indeed it may be that the lack of
logic train enables the thought?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Whatever
the genesis, the phrase wandered about my head for some
time, quite unattached, and it also happened that I was
working my way slowly through one of the masterpieces of
20<sup>th</sup> century western philosophy when a fuzzy
connection began to form. The work was that of Alfred
North Whitehead, and the title: â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Process
and Reality.â Iâve been through the</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
book probably 4-5 times, and I am frank to confess that I
donâ</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">t
think I really understand</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
it. But then again Iâ</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ve</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
heard a number of people with much greater credentials,
tenure, etc â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
say the same thing. But I did get that it</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
had something to do with, â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Everything
is moving.â And</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
the more I thought and read, the more I felt that the good
philosopher had made a small mistake on his title. It
shouldnâ</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">t
be âProcess</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
<i>and</i> Reality,â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
but rather</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Process</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
<b>is</b> Reality.â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Now,
Anna Caroline we come to â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">structure,â
or perhaps I</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
should say the fallacy of Structure? Yes I know â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
weâ</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ve
all been taught that structure is the precursor, the â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">determinatorâ
of everything. My face looks as it does</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
because of my bone structure. My life proceeds the way it
does because of my social structure. My business works as
it does because of the organizational structure. And of
course, meetings happen the way they do because of meeting
structure, which apparently is the prime domain of â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">facilitators.â
And even if we hadnât been</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">taughtâ
all this, the primacy of structure would appear</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
to be blatantly obvious â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
as plain as the nose on your</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
face. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Unfortunately,
it does seem to turn out that sometimes the blatantly
obvious is not necessarily so. For example just looking at
things it is pretty clear that the world is flat, or at
the least bumpy flat. And any fool can see that we are the
center of it all â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
Sun, moon, and stars whiz around us. </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
But when we think about it, as we have been doing for the
last 500-600 years, the obvious isnâ</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">t
so obvious.</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It
is reasonable to ask what would start to make us think
differently â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
to the point that we begin to question the</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
obvious, and even come to see things in a different way?
Taking a leap, I will suggest that it all begins with the
perception of anomaly. Things just donâ</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">t
make sense. O</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ur
eyes tell us one thing... but???? And then we start making
up stories to explain the apparently unexplainable. We
imagine different ways of looking at things so that the
nonsensical makes sense. Some of those stories get pretty
strange, but if they actually work â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
that is to say, help</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
us to see in new and useful ways â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
thatâs great</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">There
is, of course, a proper term for the activity I have been
describing. It is called Theory Building. And for whatever
it is worth, â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">theoryâ
comes from the G</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">reek
â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"></span><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">theoreinâ</span></i><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"></span></i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
to see. In a word, theories are ways of looking at</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
things â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
likely stories you might say.</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Now,
at long last (too long?) we come to the odd story I was
starting to tell, to the effect that Structure is only a
figment of our imagination, a flash frame of a moment gone
by. Interesting, and helpful under some circumstances...
but always partial and in a sense illusory. Whatâ</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">s</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">reallyâ
happening is all flow. Everything is moving â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
Thatâ</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">s
Ralphâs story, and I guess it is </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">mine
too.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So
how did I get to such a weird condition? It was all about
anomaly â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
more particularly, the anomaly of Open Space.</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
Everything that I had ever learned told me that it could
not work. Unfortunately it did (work) â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
and not just once, but</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
every time, hundreds of thousands of times. Something was
definitely weird. It seemed to me that I had to
re-consider all those things I thought I had learned,
beginning with the basics... such things as Structure.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Common
sense would say that Open Space works because we somehow
created a structure that enabled it to work. Thatâ</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">s
the</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
way things get done, or so I had been taught. But thatâ</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">s</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
not the way things happened in Open Space. Structure
emerged along the way and only momentarily. Worse yet it
(structure) seemed to have little to do with the obvious
power, connections, creativity.... all of which created
structures, and passed them by. And actually it always
seemed to me that the â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">structuresâ
I âsawâ existed only because I</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
wanted to see them â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
or perhaps that I âshouldâ see</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
them. But they were only momentary wisps, figments â</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
never</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
to be mistaken for what was really going on. Or so Iâ</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ve</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
been thinking.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Harrison</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
OSList [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org">mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Herman via OSList<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 03, 2015 6:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> JL Walker; World wide Open Space Technology
email list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of
Structurelessness</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">you remind me, harrison, of one morning
news session years ago, somewhere, probably OT... where
ralph copleman walked to the center of the circle and
announced, all serious and mischievous at the same time,
"it's all moving!" Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">then put the stick down and went back
to his seat. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Â <br>
--<br>
<br>
Michael Herman<br>
Michael Herman Associates<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://MichaelHerman.com" target="_blank">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://OpenSpaceWorld.org" target="_blank">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 1:47 PM, JL
Walker via OSList <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org"
target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Courier New
;color:#1f497d","serif"">I was
thinking that maybe the antidote to the eventual
tyranny of structurelessness is to open space,
again and again, until true democracy can emerge.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Courier New
;color:#1f497d","serif"">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Courier New
;color:#1f497d","serif"">Juan Luis</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="ES">De:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="ES"> OSList [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a></a>]
<b>En nombre de </b>Rosa Zubizarreta via OSList<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> sábado, 03 de octubre de 2015
12:19<br>
<b>Para:</b> Daniel Mezick; World wide Open Space
Technology email list<br>
<b>Asunto:</b> Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of
Structurelessness</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">Hi Daniel,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">Yes, this is
a key piece... I see it as
very similar in some ways to
what Ken Wilber wrote later,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">about the
"shadow side of the green
meme". (Each meme has its own
shadow, as well as its own
gift...)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">So, I love
"green". I love circles, I love
non-hierarchy, etc. <br>
And, part of the "shadow side of
the green meme" is how
ideologically anti-structure it
can become... </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">to the point where
some people may not even agree
that OST does, in fact, offer a
very simple and effective
structure.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">By way contrast,
think of a situation where group of
people (who don't know about OST,
and/or, who are having a power
struggle around "which process to
use", and/or.... ) might easily
spending a whole weekend arguing <i>about
</i>"how to self-organize
ourselves"... with a great deal more
pain and frustration and a great
deal less value.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">whereas, instead, IF
someone knows about OST, and, a clear
invitation has been extended, and,
there is enough trust/suspension of
disbelief so that participants are
willing to enter into that format, <br>
<br>
then, we end up with a very simple and
elegant structure that allows people
to self-organize beautifully.... </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">at least that's how i see
it! :-)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">with all best wishes,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">Rosa</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="ES-TRAD"><br clear="all">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span
lang="ES-TRAD">Rosa
Zubizarreta</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><i><span
lang="ES-TRAD">Developing
Participatory and
Co-intelligent Leadership<br>
Author of <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.conflict2creativity.com"
target="_blank"><b>From
Conflict to Creative
Collaboration</b></a></span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span
lang="ES-TRAD">For more
resources and learning
opportunities, visit<br>
<b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.DiaPraxis.com"
target="_blank">www.DiaPraxis.com</a></b></span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 9:26
AM, Daniel Mezick via OSList <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a></a>>
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">THE TYRANNY of
STRUCTURELESSNESS<br>
by Jo Freeman aka Joreen<br>
<br>
I find this essay extremely interesting.
I hope you do, too. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Here is a pertinent quote, from the
essay:<br>
"...</span><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">the idea of
"structurelessness" does not prevent
the formation of informal structures,
only formal ones."<br>
<br>
</span></i><span lang="ES-TRAD"><br>
Circa 1970. Context: the women's
movement. Quick summary of the main
points: from the essay...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l5
level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">ï·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">During the years in
which the women's liberation movement
has been taking shape, a great
emphasis has been placed on what are
called leaderless, structureless
groups as the main -- if not sole --
organizational form of the movement. </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3
level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">ï·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">The idea of
"structurelessness," however, has
moved from a healthy counter to those
tendencies, to becoming a goddess in
its own right.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l6
level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">ï·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">Contrary to what we
would like to believe, there is no
such thing as a structureless group. </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo4"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">ï·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">This means that to
strive for a structureless group is as
useful, and as deceptive, as to aim at
an "objective" news story,
"value-free" social science, or a
"free" economy. A "laissez faire"
group is about as realistic as a
"laissez faire" society; the idea
becomes a smokescreen for the strong
or the lucky to establish unquestioned
hegemony over others. </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo5"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">ï·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">This hegemony can be so
easily established because the idea of
"structurelessness" does not prevent
the formation of informal structures,
only formal ones. </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo6"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">ï·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">For everyone to have
the opportunity to be involved in a
given group and to participate in its
activities, the structure must be
explicit, not implicit. </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l4
level1 lfo7"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">ï·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">It is this informal
structure, particularly in
Unstructured groups, which forms the
basis for elites.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="ES-TRAD"><br>
<br>
Just in case you have not yet
encountered the full text of this essay,
here it is: <br>
<br>
THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS<br>
by Jo Freeman aka Joreen<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm"
target="_blank">http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Daniel <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/about"
target="_blank">http://www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/about</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.DanielMezick.com"
target="_blank">http://www.DanielMezick.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:203%20915%207248"
target="_blank">203 915 7248</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
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lang="ES-TRAD">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>OSList mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
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</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="p1">Daniel Mezick, President<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="p1">New Technology Solutions Inc.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="p1">(203) 915 7248 (cell)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="p2"><span class="s1"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/">Bio</a></span><span
class="s2">. <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://newtechusa.net/blog/"><span class="s1">Blog</span></a>.
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/"><span
class="s1">Twitter</span></a>.</span><span
class="apple-converted-space"><span style="color:black">Â </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="p3"><span class="s2">Examine my new book:</span><span
class="apple-converted-space"><span style="color:black">Â
</span></span><span class="s2"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/"><span
class="s1">The Culture Game </span></a></span><span
class="s1">: Tools for the Agile Manager</span><span
class="s2">.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="p1">Explore Agile Team <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/"><span
class="s3">Training</span></a> and <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/"><span
class="s3">Coaching.</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="p1">Explore the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://newtechusa.net/user-groups/ma/"><span
class="s3">Agile Boston </span></a>Community.<span
class="apple-converted-space">Â </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="p1">Daniel Mezick, President</p>
<p class="p1">New Technology Solutions Inc.</p>
<p class="p1">(203) 915 7248 (cell)</p>
<p class="p2"><span class="s1"><a
href="http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/">Bio</a></span><span
class="s2">. <a href="http://newtechusa.net/blog/"><span
class="s1">Blog</span></a>. <a
href="http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/"><span class="s1">Twitter</span></a>.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p>
<p class="p3"><span class="s2">Examine my new book:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/"><span
class="s1">The Culture Game </span></a></span><span
class="s1">: Tools for the Agile Manager</span><span
class="s2">.</span></p>
<p class="p1">Explore Agile Team <a
href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/"><span
class="s3">Training</span></a> and <a
href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/"><span
class="s3">Coaching.</span></a></p>
<p class="p1">Explore the <a
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