<div dir="ltr">this is lovely, Michael...<br><br>>when people say, "oh, yes, the circle makes everyone equal," and i
always like to point out that it >gives them equal access to the markers
and paper and each other, but they are all still uniquely >important!<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><i><b>Rosa Zubizarreta</b><br></i></div><div><i><span></span></i><i><span><i><span><i>Developing Participatory and Co-intelligent Leadership<br></i></span>Author of <a href="http://www.conflict2creativity.com" target="_blank"><b>From Conflict to Creative Collaboration</b></a><br></i></span><br></i></div><i><span>For more resources and learning opportunities</span>, visit<br></i><span><span><i><b><a href="http://www.DiaPraxis.com" target="_blank">www.DiaPraxis.com</a></b></i></span></span></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 5:39 PM, Michael Herman via OSList <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>there's an awful lot been written about the oslist to be unstructured...</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://openspaceworld.org/wp2/oslist/" target="_blank">http://openspaceworld.org/wp2/oslist/</a><br></div><div><a href="http://openspaceworld.org/wp2/oslist/oslist-faq/" target="_blank">http://openspaceworld.org/wp2/oslist/oslist-faq/</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>and i can add, daniel, that these pages reminded me that ralph copleman was also the first oslist poet laureate. i remember him showing up for morning news sessions, at several os gatherings, with a poem that had come to him in the wee hours of the morning. he was the convener, with harrison and karen davis, of the ongoing series of january learning events. he was marvelously irreverent, in a provocative and productive way, which i think you would have enjoyed very much. he's also the guy who convened something called "totally fulfilling business" conference in philadelphia in 1996, where i met harrison and a number of other people who've made hugely important contributions to my learning and the formation of the larger community. i notice he's been mentioned in 1273 of our 57800 list postings. <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/search?q=ralph+copleman&l=oslist%40lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/search?q=ralph+copleman&l=oslist%40lists.openspacetech.org</a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>is there a difference between history and structure? how about relationship and structure? </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>and rosa, you remind me of when people say, "oh, yes, the circle makes everyone equal," and i always like to point out that it gives them equal access to the markers and paper and each other, but they are all still uniquely important!</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><span class=""><br clear="all"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div> <br>--<br><br>Michael Herman<br>Michael Herman Associates<br><a href="http://MichaelHerman.com" target="_blank">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br><a href="http://OpenSpaceWorld.org" target="_blank">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br><br></div></div></div></div>
<br></span><div><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 4:16 PM, Daniel Mezick via OSList <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Rosa, <br>
<br>
Thanks for your thoughts on the essay, [The Tyranny of
Structurelessness.]<br>
<br>
You say:<br>
"....offer clear ways for people to contribute, so that it's clear
and <b>
<u>explicit</u></b>, how people can become more involved, and thus
gain greater social currency in constructive ways."<span><br>
<br>
The author of the essay says: <br>
</span><small><small><span><big><big><span>"For everyone to have the
opportunity to be involved in a given group and to
participate in its activities, the structure must be <u><b>explicit</b></u>,
not implicit. "<br>
<br></span>
It appears you have studied similar material and know the
topic, and what you are talking about...<br>
<br>
...except that bit about me being fearless at the end. <br>
<br>
Because, I'm afraid that what you are calling </big></big></span></small></small><small><small><span><big><big><small><small><span><big><big>"fearlessness"
in me might best be described as "foolishness."<br>
<br>
<br>
Curioius Question: Does OSLIST constitute an
"unstructured group?"<br>
</big></big></span></small></small><br>
My Best Regards,<br>
Daniel <br>
<br>
</big></big></span></small></small><div><div><small><small><span><big><big><br>
<br>
</big></big></span></small></small><br>
<div>On 10/5/15 4:10 PM, Rosa Zubizarreta
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Hi Daniel,<br>
<br>
</div>
The writing you shared may well challenge some of our
assumptions -- the word "structure" is at least as loaded in
our culture as the word "power" or the word "leader" -- yet
it does not, to my mind, challenge our practice of OST.<br>
<br>
</div>
Indeed, one of the great things about OST is that it's really
clear how to be involved... you go up to the marketplace,
announce your session, and post it. That is a very clear and
explicit way of being involved, in my book... <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Now, when we extrapolate from OST gatherings, to talking
about how organizations could or should, be structured or
unstructured... that's a whole other ball of wax. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>I can't find the references right now, but there are a few
other authors who also write very clearly and eloquently about
the same phenomenon that is described in the Tyranny of
Structurelessness. One is the pagan eco-activist organizer
and writer Starhawk. She has worked for eons as part of
radical social change activist groups who strive to be
egalitarian, etc., so reading her thoughts about the
inevitability of informal power arrangements arising in
groups, and what to do about it, including clear and simple
and helpful structures can help minimize it, was hugely
valuable for me.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Basically what she says is that people are always
developing informal power hierarchies, based on charisma, or
looks, or previous friendships, etc.... and that some of the
best ways of working with that, include a) making it something
that can be acknowledged and explored, rather than it being an
"undiscussable" because we are "supposed to be an egalitaran
group".... and b) to offer clear ways for people to
contribute, so that it's clear and explicit, how people can
become more involved, and thus gain greater social currency in
constructive ways. (I am majorly paraphrasing here, with a
quite rusty memory, so please don't take any of this too
literally.)<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Sorry I can't give you references at the moment... my
library is spread out over a few different households at
present. But thank you for your own fearlessness in raising
this topic. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>with all best wishes,<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Rosa<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><i><b>Rosa Zubizarreta</b><br>
</i></div>
<div><i><span></span></i><i><span><i><span><i>Developing
Participatory and Co-intelligent
Leadership<br>
</i></span>Author of <a href="http://www.conflict2creativity.com" target="_blank"><b>From Conflict to Creative
Collaboration</b></a><br>
</i></span><br>
</i></div>
<i><span>For more resources and learning opportunities</span>,
visit<br>
</i><span><span><i><b><a href="http://www.DiaPraxis.com" target="_blank">www.DiaPraxis.com</a></b></i></span></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 1:09 PM, Daniel
Mezick via OSList <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Greeting Marie, Anna,
Dirk, Michael, Rosa, JL, Harrison (...did I miss anyone?
sorry of I did) ...<br>
<br>
<DISCLAMER> I do like this essay. A lot.
</DISCLAMER><br>
<br>
Thanks for interacting around this provocative essay "The
Tyranny of Structurelessness." <br>
<br>
The essay certainly does challenge some of our most
cherished assumptions, doesn't it? <br>
<br>
The essay is issuing a clear and specific warning about
tyranny developing in groups that value
"structurelessness." <br>
<br>
I hold this as a (current) belief, about healthy groups:<span><br>
<i>"For everyone to have the opportunity to be involved
in a given group and to participate in its activities,
the structure must be explicit, not implicit. </i><small><i>"</i><br>
</small><br>
<br>
<br>
</span> Reiterating some of the key assertions
(provocations?) in the essay, "The Tyranny of
Structurelessness"... <br>
<br>
....for a moment, let's pretend the following assertions
by the author are true. <br>
<br>
Assuming these assertions **are** true, what are some of
the implications ?<span><br>
<br>
<br>
<ul>
<li> <big><big>Contrary to what we would like to
believe, there is no such thing as a
structureless group. </big></big></li>
</ul>
<p><big><big><br>
</big></big></p>
</span><span>
<ul>
<li><big><big>This means that to strive for a
structureless group is as useful, and as
deceptive, as to aim at an "objective" news
story, "value-free" social science, or a "free"
economy. A "laissez faire" group is about as
realistic as a "laissez faire" society; the idea
becomes a smokescreen for the strong or the
lucky to establish unquestioned hegemony over
others. </big></big></li>
</ul>
<p><big><big><br>
</big></big></p>
</span><span>
<ul>
<li><big><big>This hegemony can be so easily
established because the idea of
"structurelessness" does not prevent the
formation of informal structures, only formal
ones. </big></big></li>
</ul>
<p><big><big><br>
</big></big></p>
</span><span>
<ul>
<li><big><big> For everyone to have the opportunity to
be involved in a given group and to participate
in its activities, the structure must be
explicit, not implicit. </big></big></li>
</ul>
<p><big><big><br>
</big></big></p>
</span><span>
<ul>
<li><big><big> It is this informal structure,
particularly in Unstructured groups, which forms
the basis for elites.</big></big></li>
</ul>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span>
<div>
<div>
<div>On 10/5/15 12:38 PM, Marie Nelson via OSList
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Interesting array of perspectives on structures. I sometimes distinguish between content structures (agendas, syllabi that function for command and control) and process structures (that liberate people/learners to interact at the point of choice).
Marie
________________________________
From: OSList <a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank"><oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org></a> on behalf of via OSList <a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank"><oslist@lists.openspacetech.org></a>
Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2015 10:27 AM
To: Harrison Owen; World wide Open Space Technology email list
Subject: Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of Structurelessness
Dear Daniel, thank you for sharing the synopsis of the essay. Sounds very valuable to me!
Rosa, yes I am also a 'green' lover - but living with the assumption that I am pretty aware of the shadows...
For me sitting in a circle is a structure. Starting with a break is another element of structure. Allowing participants to co-create the agenda is a structure. Etc.
Harrison, I don't understand why you say structure is only a figment of our imagination.
I believe structure is something very real - even if it's not always as tangible as the structure of a house - how we structure time, decision making, dialogue, sharing, connecting ... Coffee breaks, all pretty real stuff to me.
I believe nobody is obliged to follow a given structure. But structure - if it's purposefully designed can enable people to enter into a state of flow with ease and joy.
Of course structure is not the only reason why we experience flow, joy and ease in a meeting.
Let's take the example of a tomato. The wooden structure that holds the tomato is not determining how the tomato grows, but if purposefully placed it can supports the tomato to grow.
The tomato's purpose is not to follow the wooden structure, the tomato is growing, and the structure is an invitation to support the growth and development. The structure itself is not the flow. The structure can enable flow and healthy growth.
I think there are several structural factors that can increase joy, ease and creativity to emerge. I'll name those that come to mind - inspired by the 'Deep Essence Tool' of the Genuine Contact program. Let me list those factors as questions that help me when I design meeting structures/ processes I facilitate:
- is the purpose of the meeting/process clear?
- what are our values? Is the design of the meeting aligned with these values?
- what assumptions do I and my clients have? (Watch out - assumptions have a uber impact on the structure) I, you, a group, a leader have to be super clear and honest about our assumptions - huge shadow trap - not being clear honest about our assumptions when we create structure.
Now let's find and create a structure for our meeting, for our organization, our movement...
The more purpose, values, assumptions and structures are aligned, in order to create a life nurturing environment, the more the people have the opportunity to take leadership for inspired action.
Step by step a story unfolds that is characterized by people experimenting, sharing, trying, daring, learning ... Taking responsibility and leadership.
Depending on my abilities, resources and assumptions, and consciousness/awareness I create structures as a facilitator. My wish is to design and facilitate meetings where people connect with their passion and take leadership. My aim is to be very clear why I create which structures and I do my best to stay open to learn from the group and adopt the structure to their needs if needed.
I believe the purpose of the structure is to serve people, life and flow. Structure shall never be created in order to be obeyed by the people. But it may enable and empower people to step into their full potential and life force.
We as OST community create a structure that continues to allow flow, learning, sharing, seeping our understanding: an international email list, language specific lists, wosonos, Stammtisch, Facebook group, online calls...
I am grateful that this structure exists otherwise I could not learn from all your perspectives, insights, questions and sharing.
much Love
Anna Caroline
On 03 Oct 2015, at 20:40, Harrison Owen via OSList <<a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a><a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank"><mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org></a>> wrote:
And just to churn the pot a bit.... open some space??? An off thought which has pestered me recently. Goes like this. "Structure is only a figment of our imagination. It is our "take" of reality, a flash frame of the passing scene. In our minds it looks solid, even unchanging. But actually it is just a momentary view of the ongoing flow." Or something.
Harrison
From: OSList [<a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>] On Behalf Of Daniel Mezick via OSList
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 9:26 AM
To: <a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a><a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank"><mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org></a>
Subject: [OSList] The Tyranny of Structurelessness
THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS
by Jo Freeman aka Joreen
I find this essay extremely interesting. I hope you do, too.
Here is a pertinent quote, from the essay:
"...the idea of "structurelessness" does not prevent the formation of informal structures, only formal ones."
Circa 1970. Context: the women's movement. Quick summary of the main points: from the essay...
* During the years in which the women's liberation movement has been taking shape, a great emphasis has been placed on what are called leaderless, structureless groups as the main -- if not sole -- organizational form of the movement.
* The idea of "structurelessness," however, has moved from a healthy counter to those tendencies, to becoming a goddess in its own right.
* Contrary to what we would like to believe, there is no such thing as a structureless group.
* This means that to strive for a structureless group is as useful, and as deceptive, as to aim at an "objective" news story, "value-free" social science, or a "free" economy. A "laissez faire" group is about as realistic as a "laissez faire" society; the idea becomes a smokescreen for the strong or the lucky to establish unquestioned hegemony over others.
* This hegemony can be so easily established because the idea of "structurelessness" does not prevent the formation of informal structures, only formal ones.
* For everyone to have the opportunity to be involved in a given group and to participate in its activities, the structure must be explicit, not implicit.
* It is this informal structure, particularly in Unstructured groups, which forms the basis for elites.
Just in case you have not yet encountered the full text of this essay, here it is:
THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS
by Jo Freeman aka Joreen
<a href="http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm" target="_blank">http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm</a>
Regards,
Daniel
<a href="http://www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/about" target="_blank">http://www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/about</a>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<span>
<div>-- <br>
<p>Daniel Mezick, President</p>
<p>New Technology Solutions Inc.</p>
<p><a href="tel:%28203%29%20915%207248" value="+12039157248" target="_blank">(203) 915
7248</a> (cell)</p>
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<p><span>Examine my new book:<span> </span><a href="http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/" target="_blank"><span>The Culture Game </span></a></span><span>:
Tools for the Agile Manager</span><span>.</span></p>
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</blockquote>
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<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div>-- <br>
<p>Daniel Mezick, President</p>
<p>New Technology Solutions Inc.</p>
<p><a href="tel:%28203%29%20915%207248" value="+12039157248" target="_blank">(203) 915 7248</a> (cell)</p>
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<p><span>Examine my new book:<span> </span><a href="http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/" target="_blank"><span>The Culture Game </span></a></span><span>: Tools for the Agile Manager</span><span>.</span></p>
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