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Paul,<br>
<br>
Do you agree then, with this statement by the author?<br>
<br>
<i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">"Contrary to what we would like to believe, there
is no such thing as a structureless group." <br>
<br>
<br>
</span></i><br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/5/15 1:11 PM, paul levy via
OSList wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAnJsbBzyEdgtmXr0WgeuhgSuRra9Oyzj0gEwWmEnbP1t1ddHA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">I rather like the saying "Trying to understand
yourself is like trying to bite your own teeth."
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The statement "Structure is s figment of our imagination" is
simply a structured statement.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Indeed all advocacy is at least temporary structure. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And no less beautiful for that.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Saying it's all flow is another structure statement. By
advocating it is true it becomes a truth structure.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ho hum. So it goes.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"There can be no river unless the mountain spring makes a
sacred promise to the sea." </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Warm wishes <span></span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Paul Levy <br>
<br>
On Sunday, 4 October 2015, Harrison Owen via OSList <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a></a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">“Everything
is moving.” .... Michael -- I remember that moment
very well. And Dan, I’m not sure the context, etc,
would help very much. But just for the record the odd
phrase popped out at one of the International Symposia
on Organization Transformation which happened to be
taking place at a small college south of Seattle. I
have no idea why Ralph said what he did, and I’m not
sure Ralph did either. But then again a lot of
marvelous stuff seems to burst out with no obvious
logic train. Indeed it may be that the lack of logic
train enables the thought?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Whatever
the genesis, the phrase wandered about my head for
some time, quite unattached, and it also happened that
I was working my way slowly through one of the
masterpieces of 20<sup>th</sup> century western
philosophy when a fuzzy connection began to form. The
work was that of Alfred North Whitehead, and the
title: “Process and Reality.” I’ve been through the
book probably 4-5 times, and I am frank to confess
that I don’t think I really understand it. But then
again I’ve heard a number of people with much greater
credentials, tenure, etc – say the same thing. But I
did get that it had something to do with, “Everything
is moving.” And the more I thought and read, the more
I felt that the good philosopher had made a small
mistake on his title. It shouldn’t be “Process <i>and</i>
Reality,” but rather “Process <b>is</b> Reality.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Now,
Anna Caroline we come to “structure,” or perhaps I
should say the fallacy of Structure? Yes I know –
we’ve all been taught that structure is the precursor,
the “determinator” of everything. My face looks as it
does because of my bone structure. My life proceeds
the way it does because of my social structure. My
business works as it does because of the
organizational structure. And of course, meetings
happen the way they do because of meeting structure,
which apparently is the prime domain of
“facilitators.” And even if we hadn’t been “taught”
all this, the primacy of structure would appear to be
blatantly obvious – as plain as the nose on your face.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Unfortunately,
it does seem to turn out that sometimes the blatantly
obvious is not necessarily so. For example just
looking at things it is pretty clear that the world is
flat, or at the least bumpy flat. And any fool can see
that we are the center of it all – Sun, moon, and
stars whiz around us. But when we think about it, as
we have been doing for the last 500-600 years, the
obvious isn’t so obvious. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">It
is reasonable to ask what would start to make us think
differently – to the point that we begin to question
the obvious, and even come to see things in a
different way? Taking a leap, I will suggest that it
all begins with the perception of anomaly. Things just
don’t make sense. Our eyes tell us one thing...
but???? And then we start making up stories to explain
the apparently unexplainable. We imagine different
ways of looking at things so that the nonsensical
makes sense. Some of those stories get pretty strange,
but if they actually work – that is to say, help us to
see in new and useful ways – that’s great!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">There
is, of course, a proper term for the activity I have
been describing. It is called Theory Building. And for
whatever it is worth, “theory” comes from the Greek “<i>theorein”</i>
– to see. In a word, theories are ways of looking at
things – likely stories you might say. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Now,
at long last (too long?) we come to the odd story I
was starting to tell, to the effect that Structure is
only a figment of our imagination, a flash frame of a
moment gone by. Interesting, and helpful under some
circumstances... but always partial and in a sense
illusory. What’s “really” happening is all flow.
Everything is moving – That’s Ralph’s story, and I
guess it is mine too.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">So
how did I get to such a weird condition? It was all
about anomaly – more particularly, the anomaly of Open
Space. Everything that I had ever learned told me that
it could not work. Unfortunately it did (work) – and
not just once, but every time, hundreds of thousands
of times. Something was definitely weird. It seemed to
me that I had to re-consider all those things I
thought I had learned, beginning with the basics...
such things as Structure.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Common
sense would say that Open Space works because we
somehow created a structure that enabled it to work.
That’s the way things get done, or so I had been
taught. But that’s not the way things happened in Open
Space. Structure emerged along the way and only
momentarily. Worse yet it (structure) seemed to have
little to do with the obvious power, connections,
creativity.... all of which created structures, and
passed them by. And actually it always seemed to me
that the “structures” I “saw” existed only because I
wanted to see them – or perhaps that I “should” see
them. But they were only momentary wisps, figments –
never to be mistaken for what was really going on. Or
so I’ve been thinking.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Harrison</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
OSList [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org');"
target="_blank">mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Herman via OSList<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 03, 2015 6:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> JL Walker; World wide Open Space
Technology email list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of
Structurelessness</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">you remind me, harrison, of one
morning news session years ago, somewhere, probably
OT... where ralph copleman walked to the center of the
circle and announced, all serious and mischievous at
the same time, "it's all moving!" </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">then put the stick down and went
back to his seat. </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <br>
--<br>
<br>
Michael Herman<br>
Michael Herman Associates<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://MichaelHerman.com"
target="_blank">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://OpenSpaceWorld.org"
target="_blank">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 1:47 PM,
JL Walker via OSList <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','oslist@lists.openspacetech.org');"
target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1f497d">I was thinking that
maybe the antidote to the eventual tyranny of
structurelessness is to open space, again and
again, until true democracy can emerge.</span><span
lang="ES-TRAD"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1f497d"> </span><span
lang="ES-TRAD"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Courier
New";color:#1f497d">Juan Luis</span><span
lang="ES-TRAD"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span
lang="ES-TRAD"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="ES">De:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="ES"> OSList [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org');"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a></a>]
<b>En nombre de </b>Rosa Zubizarreta via
OSList<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> sábado, 03 de octubre de
2015 12:19<br>
<b>Para:</b> Daniel Mezick; World wide Open
Space Technology email list<br>
<b>Asunto:</b> Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of
Structurelessness</span><span lang="ES-TRAD"></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">Hi
Daniel,</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">Yes, this
is a key piece... I see
it as very similar in
some ways to what Ken
Wilber wrote later, </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">about the
"shadow side of the green
meme". (Each meme has its
own shadow, as well as its
own gift...)</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">So, I love
"green". I love circles, I
love non-hierarchy, etc. <br>
And, part of the "shadow
side of the green meme" is
how ideologically
anti-structure it can
become... </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">to the point
where some people may not even
agree that OST does, in fact,
offer a very simple and
effective structure.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">By way contrast,
think of a situation where group
of people (who don't know about
OST, and/or, who are having a
power struggle around "which
process to use", and/or.... )
might easily spending a whole
weekend arguing <i>about </i>"how
to self-organize ourselves"...
with a great deal more pain and
frustration and a great deal
less value.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">whereas, instead,
IF someone knows about OST, and, a
clear invitation has been
extended, and, there is enough
trust/suspension of disbelief so
that participants are willing to
enter into that format, <br>
<br>
then, we end up with a very simple
and elegant structure that allows
people to self-organize
beautifully.... </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">at least that's how i
see it! :-)</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">with all best wishes,</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD">Rosa</span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD"><br
clear="all">
</span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
lang="ES-TRAD">Rosa
Zubizarreta</span></i></b><span
lang="ES-TRAD"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><i><span
lang="ES-TRAD">Developing
Participatory and
Co-intelligent Leadership<br>
Author of <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.conflict2creativity.com"
target="_blank"><b>From
Conflict to Creative
Collaboration</b></a></span></i><span
lang="ES-TRAD"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
lang="ES-TRAD">For more
resources and learning
opportunities, visit<br>
<b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.DiaPraxis.com" target="_blank">www.DiaPraxis.com</a></b></span></i><span
lang="ES-TRAD"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD">On
Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Daniel
Mezick via OSList <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','oslist@lists.openspacetech.org');"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a></a>>
wrote:</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="ES-TRAD">THE TYRANNY of
STRUCTURELESSNESS<br>
by Jo Freeman aka Joreen<br>
<br>
I find this essay extremely
interesting. I hope you do, too. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Here is a pertinent quote, from the
essay:<br>
"...</span><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">the idea of
"structurelessness" does not
prevent the formation of informal
structures, only formal ones."<br>
<br>
</span></i><span lang="ES-TRAD"><br>
Circa 1970. Context: the women's
movement. Quick summary of the main
points: from the essay...</span></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">During the years
in which the women's liberation
movement has been taking shape,
a great emphasis has been placed
on what are called leaderless,
structureless groups as the main
-- if not sole -- organizational
form of the movement. </span></i><span
lang="ES-TRAD"></span></li>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">The idea of
"structurelessness," however,
has moved from a healthy counter
to those tendencies, to becoming
a goddess in its own right.</span></i><span
lang="ES-TRAD"></span></li>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">Contrary to what
we would like to believe, there
is no such thing as a
structureless group. </span></i><span
lang="ES-TRAD"></span></li>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">This means that
to strive for a structureless
group is as useful, and as
deceptive, as to aim at an
"objective" news story,
"value-free" social science, or
a "free" economy. A "laissez
faire" group is about as
realistic as a "laissez faire"
society; the idea becomes a
smokescreen for the strong or
the lucky to establish
unquestioned hegemony over
others. </span></i><span
lang="ES-TRAD"></span></li>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">This hegemony can
be so easily established because
the idea of "structurelessness"
does not prevent the formation
of informal structures, only
formal ones. </span></i><span
lang="ES-TRAD"></span></li>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">For everyone to
have the opportunity to be
involved in a given group and to
participate in its activities,
the structure must be explicit,
not implicit. </span></i><span
lang="ES-TRAD"></span></li>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""
lang="ES-TRAD">It is this
informal structure, particularly
in Unstructured groups, which
forms the basis for elites.</span></i><span
lang="ES-TRAD"></span></li>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="ES-TRAD"><br>
<br>
Just in case you have not yet
encountered the full text of this
essay, here it is: <br>
<br>
THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS<br>
by Jo Freeman aka Joreen<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm"
target="_blank">http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Daniel <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/about"
target="_blank">http://www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/about</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.DanielMezick.com"
target="_blank">http://www.DanielMezick.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:203%20915%207248"
target="_blank">203 915 7248</a></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-TRAD"> </span></p>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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