<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Hi Andrea,<br>
<br>
So great to see you here, Andrea! I notice that you posted last year
that you were part of the "Lurker" list, but I think you just
disqualified yourself as a lurker!<br>
<br>
Thanks for the reference to Liberating Structures. I asked about
books, and I've already put that on the list of recommended books at
the Open Space Institute - U.S. website. <a
href="http://osius.org/books"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://osius.org/books">http://osius.org/books</a></a> . Mostly
because Liberating Structures includes Open Space Technology, and it
talks about doing it in a short amount of time. But some of the
opening conversation is pretty interesting too, about increasing our
vocabulary of meeting options.<br>
<br>
I'd not focused much on Triz - "Stop Counterproductive Activities
and Behaviors to Make Space for Innovation": <a
href="http://www.liberatingstructures.com/6-making-space-with-triz/"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.liberatingstructures.com/6-making-space-with-triz/">http://www.liberatingstructures.com/6-making-space-with-triz/</a></a>.
Have you used it? Did it really "clear space for innovation"?<br>
<br>
I'm curious as well to hear more about how things go with
understanding each others time perceptions?<br>
<br>
And opening an intergenerational space sounds interesting too.<br>
<br>
Warm Regards,<br>
Harold<br>
<br>
P.S. I'm in mountain time - so it was only 10:16pm when I posted.
Not that late, at least not for me. Talking about time perception!<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/3/15 3:43 AM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:andrea.chiou@ascconsultinginc.com">andrea.chiou@ascconsultinginc.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:D26F9F5A-5021-4C6F-953E-91177CD19723@ascconsultinginc.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div>Rich thoughts Harold! You write so well late at night! And
always! </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This discussion reminds me of the Triz facilitation technique
- documented well at Liberating Structures!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, I have a friend who helps small groups of folks she
facilitates to understand each other's perceptions of time by
asking them some questions:</div>
<div>Where is now? Where is 5 minutes from now? An hour? A week? A
month ? A year? Where is yesterday? (Continuities with similar
questions about past?) as she asks each question, to each
individual one at a time, the respondent points to a location.
Everybody has different perceptual positions . One can notice
cultural patterns - and also patterns based on ones profession
(a project planner's year from</div>
<div>Now might be right in front of them, but a teacher starting
the school year who'll have it off in the distance.) some have
the past in front of them and the future behind them (hasn't
happened yet). It's quite a fascinating texhnique!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sad I missed Tuesday's call - glad that I was instead opening
an intergenerational space with a very long time elderly family
friend... :-)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Choices! </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,<br>
<div>Andrea</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Sep 3, 2015, at 12:16 AM, Harold Shinsato via OSList <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a></a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Hi Lucas, thanks for adding some of your thinking here. I was
intrigued by something you said at the Qiqochat supported
online Open Space experience we had on the OSHotline this past
Tuesday. It seemed to relate to what started happening soon
afterwards on the OSList.<br>
<br>
About "creating" or "opening" space - I do believe these are
useful and powerful metaphors. But in terms of some of the
cosmology thinking - I'm remembering what my college professor
at my first Physics class said.<br>
<br>
We don't really know what time is beyond <b>time is what we
measure with clocks</b>.<br>
We don't know what distance (space) is beyond it is what we
measure with rulers.<br>
<br>
I opened that class's text book, and couldn't find it, but I
found the time definition with a quick internet search. It is
attributed to Einstein, and other text books do consider it an
operational definition of time. It seems fit well with
Harrison's notions that we don't really understand time or
space.<br>
<br>
Even given our not really knowing - we still measure it. Play
with it. Live in it. And one huge transformation from
Prigogene which has been discussed on the OSList before - was
an insight from the life sciences that essentially overthrew
the principles of Entropy that caused the character played by
Woody Allen in Annie Hall to get really depressed as a boy
that the ultimate end of the universe was complete
dissolution. <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U1-OmAICpU">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U1-OmAICpU</a><br>
<br>
"Why are you depressed, Alvy?"<br>
"The universe is expanding... Well, the universe is
everything, and if it's expanding, someday it will break
apart, and that will be the end of everything."<br>
<br>
The problem with the principles of Thermodynamics that Entropy
(i.e. disorder) always increases, is that these principles
came from the study of closed systems. If the Universe is
truly a closed system, our old physics required a rather
dismal cosmology.<br>
<br>
Maybe trying to nail down the ultimate truth about the
Universe into a formula or equation is a bad idea anyway, but
the Universe *AS I SEE IT* will certainly decay and dissolve
to death. And I'll have to grieve that understanding. Because
my understanding most certainly is FINITE at any point in
space/time. But all I have to do is let go, and I can open up
some space in my understanding. And maybe at that point - I'll
break open into a new understanding. One that is bigger and
greater than the previous one. New Space! at least for me. And
if it creates space for me, perhaps I can invite someone else
into this new space as well. Or maybe we can walk into it
together, after properly grieving our past understanding - may
it rest in peace.<br>
<br>
To me - how this relates to your insight if you create space
for X - you are creating space against Y: perhaps there's
something valuable to that. Because often there really is a
clearing away necessary in order to "open" space. When I go to
an OST event, I most certainly am choosing to clear my
calendar to accept that invitation. Yet - if anything - I've
always found my world expanded after attending an Open Space.
Always! And perhaps that is simply because my Understanding
grew - and therefore - voila - more space at least in my own
head.<br>
<br>
And about your final sentence in bold, although there's some
truth in your win/lose perspective - perhaps if you viewed
things from a different perspective - the perspective that
could take in the whole system - you would see that the pie
grows enough for everyone to ultimately win - if they accept
the invitation into this bigger pie. And that bigger pie is
the growth of our collective understanding and comprehension
of this infinite mystery.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Harold<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/2/15 7:47 AM, Lucas Cioffi
via OSList wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAEj+rxo6OD-ejMH_EEjq4XEHKPt2uydne11r5k+QuGNbsBj10w@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">That's an interesting thread you started,
Daniel, about inviting non-invitation.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Harrison writes yesterday:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Here’s
a thought... Space/time is infinite, defined by
our minds, and limited by our imagination. So
“constraints” are only what you make them out to
be. AND... it is always nice to have as much
“space/time” as possible. A “genuine invitation”
creates a LOT of space/time.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><b>Do y'all think we are
creating space or are we opening space? It's an
important distinction, because creating implies a
win-win but opening could be a win-lose situation. </b>I'd
say none of us is ever creating space, just opening
it, and that someone or something is always losing
something else when we do. </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><b>I'll do my best to
explain...</b></div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Instead of "creating space" I'd
argue that instead we are "creating space <b><i>for</i></b>"
because the space literally already exists. We are
creating opportunity for voices to be heard and for
people to participate. But in some indirect way a <b><i>space
for X</i></b> is at least indirectly a <i><b>space
against Y</b></i>. We are never actually creating
new space, instead we are creating "<b><i>new space
for</i></b>" by marking that space with an
invitation/purpose, principles, and a law of two
feet. The space (the hotel conference room, the
warehouse, etc) already exists.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">I don't disagree, Harrison,
that overall space/time might be infinite–I don't know
:) –but each of us is limited to being in one physical
space at a time, monitoring/interacting with a handful
of physical spaces virtually, and having 24 hours in a
day. In that way we'd all agree that space and time
are nearly zero sum at a personal scale, so when we
open/create space for _________, and people accept the
invitation, we are decreasing energy and time spent
some where else. There is a cost. We don't talk
about that, but I don't think we forget that either.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">So, to take this argument full
circle (pun intended), I'd say that whenever we open
space, we do it by force. Space doesn't open on its
own (or does it?!-- what if we aren't really <i>opening</i>
space and the space is already open, that we're just
the first to see it?). Well, even if space opens on
its own and then if we're the first ones to walk into
it and invite others, we are still inviting by
force–this not a bad force or a coercive force, but
it's a force nonetheless. We know this, because we
know how it requires force to launch an invitation
into the world. (Or is this not always the case? Can
someone invite by simply being?)</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Any invitation displaces
people's time: to read it (maybe just 30 seconds) and
then much more time is displaced for people choose to
attend (an hour, a day, etc). What I'm trying to say
is that I'm beginning to see opening space more and
more as active, forceful (in a good way), and
intentional. When we open space that was previously
closed, we are using force, and that might mean that
someone else is experiencing something else closing
(the old order of business in an organization or fewer
people attending another event or doing something that
they would have otherwise been doing if they weren't
attending).</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Bottom line: It's hard to argue
with creating space because it looks like a win-win,
but somewhere someone or something is losing our time,
energy, and support in the short term. In the case of
an organization the person losing is the boss who
wants to keep the old order of things. When that
situation isn't applicable, we're at least spending
time away from other things we could be doing such as
tending to a vegetable garden or taking Fido for a
walk. <b>So it's always important to keep in mind
who/what is losing when we open space, and perhaps
using the phrase "creating space" is a good way to
focus on the upside.</b></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
Harold Shinsato<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:harold@shinsato.com">harold@shinsato.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://shinsato.com">http://shinsato.com</a><br>
twitter: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://twitter.com/hajush">@hajush</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>OSList mailing list</span><br>
<span>To post send emails to <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a></span><br>
<span>To unsubscribe send an email to <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a></a></span><br>
<span>To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:</span><br>
<span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a></span><br>
<span>Past archives can be viewed here: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org">http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a></a></span></div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
Harold Shinsato<br>
<a href="mailto:harold@shinsato.com">harold@shinsato.com</a><br>
<a href="http://shinsato.com">http://shinsato.com</a><br>
twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/hajush">@hajush</a></div>
</body>
</html>